The Bronze Soldier
Today it was a hard day in one of Estonian towns. It was hard because of this bronze monument you can see on the pictures.
It was a monument that from Russian point of view commemorates the glory of Soviet forces liberating Estonia and Europe from the Nazi invasion. From the Estonian official point of view it is the monument of the invaders because Estonians were fighting together with German army against Soviet and thus it can’t stand anymore in Estonia.
So they demolished it tonight and now it looks like this. Just two pair of bronze boots.
But there are a lot of Russians who live in Estonia so they started expressing their attitude to this even on the streets. Police came into play and used gas.
Tens were wounded, one later died in the hospital.
And Russian bloggers now compare this act of demolition with another act in 2001 committed by Taliban in Afghanistan when they destroyed the tallest Buddha statue just because Islam bans human statues from using. Who knows who is right..
| Tags: estonia, monument, unrest, ww2 |
if it's more convinient for you.
Our friends publish:Bloggers, send your links! |
Back to English Russia Main Page for more articles like this
Fucking Estonians! I hate them! They are fascists!
FUCK YOU ALL RUSSIAN MOTHERFUCKERS, ESTONIA WILL KILL YOU ALL BITCHES. RUSSIJA MY ASS
shut the hell up. you think you’re helping to make the point here? i REALLY HOPE there won’t be any more deaths, and that includes every single one of the marauders. why can’t people understand that the answer to violence is NOT violence in this case.
Shame on you Estonia for rewriting history!
Shame on you Estonia for forgetting how you helped Hitler build concentration camps where Jewish woman and children were starved and burned alive!
Same on you Estonians for making old and frail ethnic Russians learn you difficult language, or stay in poverty!
Shame on you Estonia for discriminating and incriminating ethnic Russians who just want to earn enough to stay alive!
Shame on you Estonia for allowing racism, nationalism and anti-Semitism in the media!
Shame on you Estonia for distributing propaganda and lies about good Russian people.
And, shame on you Estonia for manipulating and brainwashing your own people to hate Russia, in order to win some political points.
You can lie all you want, and make russian people appear as bad as you like. But good people will know who are the real victims of your repressive state!
Russian people - we are with you on your difficult fight against nazism.
A friend from Elat.
Estonia is removing not “old sign of communist era”, but the sign of Saint War for Russia.
11 millions of Russian soldiers died in the battles against Germany.
16 millions civilians on the occupied were killed by Germans. Many women and female children were raped by Germans before death, many people were taken into slavery do German’s camps, many people died because of starvation cos’ Germans burnt out all food and sowing or in blockade of Leningrad.
WW2 is Saint War for Russians. This war cost Russians so much pain. As i said before, Estonia is removing not the sign of communism, but the sign of soldiers that laid there lives in the Saint War.
Don’t even wast your breath Borah.. You cann’t prove anything to zombies who were consistently brainwashed for the past 17 years buy their russophobic government and media>>
Quite sad really..
u lier f jew,, all jews are liers and killers,,,for along time ago… shame on you all …you always say a fairy tails and only stupids who belives you ….
how woman can spend long time without eating or drinking anything ??? you cause all wars all over the world only for your faivours,devil people, we really need hitler to back to life again …
Hail, the true voise of Estonia government!!
SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU NAZI PICE OF SHIT!!! many allied soldier’s died fighting you fuck’s. many honurabel solders died; Canadians, Russians, Scots, British, French, and shity USA. all died because you think you were so rightius in your objectuv. every Nazi/Nazi suporter diserves the most horibal of deth. i am in the military (PPCLI 3rd batalion for what its worth) and to here ther are still Nazi suporters out ther makes me sick. honur you dead if you whant but dont disrespect the nation that liberated you, you ignorant fuck!
->Comment by Canadian eh 2007-08-13 15:54:19
Well, well…
Content of your post aside, I have noticed so many errors in your post:
1. PICE
2. honurabel
3. solders
4. shity
5. objectuv
6. suporter
7. diserves
8. horibal
9. deth
10. batalion
11. ther
12. suporters
13. ther
14. honur
15. you
16. whant
17. dont
in 6 sentences, which is about 3 messages per sentence, and those are not simple typos, more like not knowing how to spell it and spelling words the way it sounds, which is not typical for Anglophones.
There are only two explanations to this, as much as I can see it:
1.) You are complete utterly ignorant cretin
2.) You are one of those Russkie “role-players” (some say set up and paid by FSB/KGB) who swarm the Internet pretending to be someone from the West which they are not and posting pro-Russian messages and attacking Russia’s critics.
Option 2 begins to look especially plausible, if we take into account the sick Russian-propaganda-delirium-type-of content of your message.
:)))
Ha ha!! Fuck you! :))
Ha, and some say there is no fascism in Estonia. LOL
Estonians, stop your nazi policy of oppressions on Russians and other minorities! Stop nazi policy of your nazi government!
Estonia is a democracy, unlike the fascist regime you have in Russia.
Oh, comon. Anti-semitic and anti-Russian publications in estonian press are constant. Many people (ethnic minorities) in Estonia were limited in rights.
Ha Ha, some say there is none in Russia.
There is fascsm in Russia, but at least, it is not state sponsored as it is in Latvia.
Nazism and fascism are glorified in Estonia!
http://bronze-soldier.com/gallery/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=85&g2_page=1
I ment Estonia, but it is also true of Latvia..
Blow me!
P.S. Can’t chat, busy, should drink blood of Jewish and Russian children, backson.
WE SHOULD BAN NAZI FASCIST FROM ESTONIA ON THIS FORUM! THEY ARE NAZI FASCISTS THAT WANT TO KILL AGAIN, AS THEY DO IT DURING WW2! THE WANT TO KILL RUSSIANS AND JEWS! I HATE ESTONIANS!
cut the caps for starters. how old are you, 15? get your facts straight, i’m getting tired arguing with you. so, which country killed more people in the second world war, soviet russia or the estonians? who killed more of THEMSELVES?
Germany.
Russians lived on their land included into Estonia in 1918 at least 300 years. Are they natives? Of course! Are they occupiers? No! Why Russians as natives should leave their native land included in modern Estonia?
Estonia in modern borders appeared after Bolshevik revolution, when Russian land with Russian population were voluntary included into Estonia.
If Estonians want have nothing with Bolsheviks and Russians, then they should return Russian lands that were included into Estonia by Bolsheviks.
Russians don’t have to leave their native land. If Estonians want Russians to leave - they should return Russian lands that were included into Estonia by Bolsheviks.
and all estonians should start talking russian?
and lets change our flag too?
like, when i go to shop, i realllllly hope that shopkeeper knows estonian IN Estonia. but they fucking don’t. i ask something and their eyes go big. they shoud study Estonian. some elder ones study and know it, yeah. and they know how to respect Estonia, but teens, they don’t care. they go to Tallinn and shout RUSSIA-RUSSIA. yeah, we all can see how they think that Estonia is their native land. Estonia just got free from Russia, and if you were in same situation like Estonia, i don’t think you would act much different.
yah but there not in that situation, and the hole thing is about being the biger man and knowing when to quit. and when it comes to country’s no one knows when is enuff
You shouldn’t hate. That’s bad karma.
You should be more worried about the fascists in your own country.
Texas 1, I think you are really an American trash, you probably hate Russians so much, that can not think of anything else. You are spending day after day in that forum. And after all you are talking about karma !!! Your karma man, is to be an idiot as you are, but thinking of yourself that you are liberal, well educated and civilized. You know, go find some doctor or better go to Estonia, take a part of digging this grave and you will get a Nazi medal for defending ‘democracy’ from barberic Russians.
You may also became a member of some Nazi organization there as this is what you are really all about.
THAT IS YOUR KARMA.
Your mother should be proud of you.
Kill Russians and Jews? Think again http://www.vm.ee/estonia/pea_172/kat_399/998.html
the picture of just boots is a PHOTOSHOP FAKE.
I don’t think so.
And, anyway, you can’t deny that the statue was removed!
It was not REMOVED, it was moved to a military graveyard where graves belong, don’t they?
TO ALL ESTONIANS AND GOVERNMENT OF ESTONIA! STOP DISCRIMINATION ON RUSSIANS AND OTHER MINORITIES! STOP YOU NAZI FASCIST OPPRESSION IMMEDIATELY!
ahahaha you are so funny..Are you Fcking serious? I’m estonian, so i’m a nazi, fachist etc?Do you know me?Or any other estonian? Do you actually know anything about estonia, or do you really believe anything that you find on the internet? I don’t know, i read the news and stuff but i dont see any propaganda against russia..and what do you mean russia and other minorities? do you know how many estonians there is? 1,34 million estonians, and russians? 141,9 million. Maybe u should see a map or smth:)
And i’ve heard that some call estonians racist. But what you don’t know that theres not much black people or asian people in estonia, or any other races.So its a little weird like when i see a asian guy because i’m not used to see that every day:)But i think thats cool, there should be more other races in here.All you haters make me sick! Estonia is great:)!
Estonians are Nazi supporting fascist pigs- so what else can one really expect from such?
I hate you too , fucking russian bitch . Suck my cock cow!
Actually this is the typical fake russian point of view, i advise you to remove this post. I believe that you probably did not know about what’s actually going on here, but you might want to investigate. the “bronze boots” picture is a photoshopped provocation, the statue was never demolished, it was taken to another place (complete with the brick wall behind it) within tallinn. yesterday, mobs consisting of several thousand people (of whom 95% were russians) went berserk in tallinn and caused about 50 million crowns in damage (4.4 million american dollars). the russian who died in hospital died of another russian stabbing him. as the mob attacked the police, they used teargas as self defense.
“From the Estonian official point of view it is the monument of the invaders because Estonians were fighting together with German army against Soviet and thus it can’t stand anymore in Estonia.”
-almost, but the estonians were FORCED to fight with the two forces that attacked estonia in the second world war, both the soviet union and germany. i must emphasize this: WE DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE ALONGSIDE WHOM TO FIGHT WITH.
Nobody forced them, it was their choice to join fascist troops.
NOBODY FORCED THEM? you are terribly mistaken, my friend. many estonians were killed in the german army as well as in the soviet one. often it was even estonian against estonian in two different armies in their own homeland… now, whilst both armies were present and fighting over here, we did have somewhat of a choice - but only between two options - to fight under soviet russia (not good) or fascist germany (certainly not good either). some people chose germany, and let me tell you why (i’m not trying to justify the atrocities of hitler’s germany, hear me out). germans, at the time had done nothing specifically wrong to us estonians. the soviets, on the other hand, came here in 1941 (again that is, we have been annexed by half of europe in the past centuries…) and immediately started to oppress us… so naturally the “sympathy” tended to be on the other side. the german military was much more humane towards its own troops, they had better supplies and armament. estonians were even allowed to wear our national flag on the sleeve of the military uniform! no such thing with the russians.
no such thing with the russians
Oh! Russians do not allow to use fascist nazi symbols! How disgusting you are!
Yeah, it’s obvious the bricks behind the statue were all photoshopped, and it’s a very, very sloppy job. Any 12 year old with a few hours could do better work. The patterns on the bricks are a dead giveaway…and bricks are so easy to clone.
Nice try guys, but I don’t understand why anyone bothered.
i’ts called propaganda. russians are pretty good at it, look around the comments. russian propaganda is also what got the thousands of people destroying my city.
Idiot! It is REAL PHOTOS!
not the third one - and by claiming that, you have proven yourself to be the ultimate idiot.
Did anyone ever question the that he isn’t the ultimate idiot?
You are a liar in Goebbels style! It is REAL PHOTOS!
I think that intelligent Russians should beg to be annexed into Estonia.
They are. Russian doctors, for example, are coming to work here because wages are wildly higher than in their homeland.
The 3. photo is fake . http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilt:Bronze_Soldier_at_the_Tallinn_Military_Cemetery_with_Estonian_text.jpg
Yes, this monument will be moved to a cementry and it’s not destroyed. But russian propaganda knows always better and never lies.
And a copypaste from wikipedia about “The Liberators”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonia#Under_the_USSR
“Estonia was occupied by Soviet troops in June 1940, as a consequence of the secret amendment to the August 1939 Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact between the Soviet Union and National Socialist Germany. Estonia was formally annexed by the Soviet Union in August 1940 as the Estonian SSR. Many of the country’s political and intellectual leaders were killed or deported to remote areas of the USSR by the Soviet authorities during 1940 to 1941. The repressions also included actions taken against thousands of ordinary people. When the German Operation Barbarossa started against the Soviet Union, thousands of young Estonian men were forcibly drafted into the Red Army. Hundreds of political prisoners, whom the retreating Soviets had no time to move, were killed. The country was occupied by Germany from 1941 to 1944 and many Estonians joined the German Armed Forces. Soviet forces reconquered Estonia after fierce battles in the northeast of the country on the Narva river and on the Tannenberg Line (Sinimäed). In the face of imminent re-occupation by the Red Army, tens of thousands of people chose to either retreat together with the Germans or flee the country to Finland or Sweden . In 1949, in response to slow progress in forming collective farms, as prescribed by the Soviet ideology, tens of thousands of people were forcibly deported in a few days either to labor camps or Siberia where half of them perished; the other half were not allowed to return until the early 1960s (several years after Stalin’s death).”
,,
I read that they were moving the body that lied under the statue to a cemetary, and hiding the statue.
yes, bodies also, if there are any.
apparently it’s a grave of fallen soldiers, and they want to rebury them to another place, the present place IS the center of our capital. the statue is at present not hidden, but taken to a temporary place and guarded (so it could not be vandalized, which it no doubt would be at the moment)
Fuck you (first time I’m being vulgar): there ARE bodies of soliers under the statue!
Right, and
This article does not cite its references or sources.
that’s unfortunately typical for wikipedia (as you should well know) and believe me, the sources are abundant. are there any reliable (and reasonable) sources against that view?
Sounds like how I read about it in my grade school history classes. Must be American Propoganda, and therefore trashy, undereducated, and imperialist (insert sarcastic grin here).
It sounds like that statue means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. To me it’s just a rather cool artwork and a fitting memorial to brave soldiers who fight for theyre own lives, as much if not more than, for any reasons theyre government may have for sending them into battle.
…and one ither thing…Nazis = Fascists. Fascists do not = Nazis. But what the fuck do I know, I’m just a stoner-hippy who loves surfing and skating.
“I’m just a stoner-hippy who loves surfing and skating”
Lucky you.
Actually the point is (and it has been lost in all this fuss) that nobody doubts that Red Army soldiers were brave and even heroic. What might surprise you is that neither Estonians nor Latvians for that matter do not hate individual soldiers as soldiers. They hate Stalinist regime which brought about a great deal of suffering and used Red Army as a tool to commit its criminal deeds.
So, fallen soldiers shall rest in peace and honor in soldiers cemetery.
But there shall be no monuments to deeds of totalitarian regime in a center of a city formerly conquered by it. Especially if such monuments are used as ritual places for fanatical followers of kinda totalitarian cult, which you can see at this forum personalized by all those provocateurs naming themselves borahs, sarahs, borises etc.
You are fascists!
leave us be. it’s strictly the problem of ESTONIA, not other countries. can you do anything to quell the protesters? didn’t think so. Speaking of fascism, did soviet russia not annex our country for fifty years, and destroy almost every single one of OUR memorials?
Russia did not annexed Estonia. You government signed up agreements with Soviet government.
And now you act just like Fascist scum!
true, unfortunately, but in the treaty there were some points such as how many russian troops were allowed to enter estonia (25000 if i remember correctly) and when they had to leave (in a few years). The russians came here with a force more than four times as large as allowed and never left.
But estonia has a real economy and a real democracy. It Russia that should beg to be annexed.
Where did you get that information from Freedom House???
LOL
Because its sooooo free and independant.. Ha Ha
Oh relly?? So that’s why they come to UK to clean toilets, deal dugs, vandalize your streets, and abuse the welfare system??
Honestly, old people are sacred to walk on the streets at night becouse these thugs..
by the way, if you really need to keep this misguiding post online, then what about the several WWII monuments in RUSSIA that have been DEMOLISHED (not taken away!) over the past few months (one, near st. petersburg, was this week!)? will you run stories on them as well?
The propaganda that is published by Russian authorities and media to the Russian public is as big hypocricy as it ever can be…
Whereas Estonias goverment is simply moving the war graves and the tomb statue to a more peaceful location, the Russian authorities have been ruthlessly demolishing the II World War monuments (in Himky and other locations). Where is the publicity about these events?
The fact is that Russia has the biggest concetration of active neo-nazis and where acts of xenophoby get commited daily against the minorities that live in russia (Moldovians, Georgians).
The “truth” that the media is publishing to the public in Russia is yet another story. Majority of the russian public is just blindfolded by the russian goverment - it is a country where free and independent media virtually doesn’t exist anymore. The journalists (eg Politovskaya) that speak their mind about the reality in Russia get “mysteriously” killed…
About history… Estonians were forced on the gunpoint to fight on both sides in the WW II, brother against brother. We equally hate both totalitarian regimes facist nazis and stalinistic communists.
It is just a historic reality that the allied won the WW II and allowed the Soviet Union to occupy Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania for 50 years. During these 50 years of occupation The Soviet Union committed a lot of terrible things against the Estonia and Estonians (10% of population deported to siberia, mass killings, and other crime). The crimes of communism have been internationally condoned, equally as the crimes of nazism….
Estonians are bloody fascists, they want to kill again - to kill Russians and Jews! Estonians want Jewish and Russian blood again! Estonians, you are ugly hateful Nazi scum! I hate you!
you have the right to hate us (although i do not see the point, we have never oppressed russian people… the opposite is true), but what’s happening here is that several thousand RUSSIANS came to the streets and started wrecking everything and attacking people. RUSSIANS. NOT ESTONIANS.
I like your last sentance, however. “Estonians, you are ugly hateful Nazi scum! I hate you!”
Thats just about the most hypocritical sentance i have EVER seen.
Get out of this site, you, Estonian fascist scum! I hate you!
aww.
i have nothing to say to you.
You are posting here estonian nazi propaganda in Goebbels style!
Don’t bother with that guy. He’s a troll, and a bad one at that. Real trolls are funny and sometimes insightful, this idiot doesn’t even manage to be funny. Ha ha, I’m gay, I suck cocks. How insecure can you be?
Oh, and I bet that if he’s Finnish, he’s on that fucking love boat to Tallinn each weekend buying cheap vodka and nazi t-shirts. Fuck that guy, seriously.
Fuck you! This guy is gay, and he sucks my cock!!
What’s with the swearing?
Because I’m getting seriously fed up with his forum poisoning. Especially in this thread, where Mattias is trying to build a coherent, insightful argument, and the only response he gets is inane lameness along the lines of “get out, hateful nazi scum!”. It’s not funny, it’s not amusing, it’s annoyance, pure and simple, so I say, fuck this prick and his anonymity-derived delusions of importance.
A few months ago I read Englishrussia for the comments, but now I don’t even bother. Thanks guys.
I hear you. He tends to make all Russians look bad.
“I’m getting seriously fed up with his forum poisoning…”
Oh, yes.
But this is just a piece of cake.
Let me ask you - how would you like to live in a country where guys like Boris Abramov and Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki have established radical pressure groups, political parties, participate in parliament elections (in a country which they want to disappear), own newspapers (where they print approximately the same hate speech stuff you can read here), hating everyone, permanently lying to create their own reality and just complaining about how “oppressed” they are?
I am talking about Estonia and Latvia.
We are having hard time here with this kind of obsessed aggresive xenophobic Soviet revanchist Russian chauvinist extremist lying as hell lunatics. They have rights, you know, so we must let them go on with it.
does it mean you’re also gay?
Well, that is a excellent example of Russian propaganda treats Estonia (and last year they treated the same way also Latvia)…
Can anyone call this civilized discussion? Anyone?
a one-sided civilized discussion perhaps
even if i say so myself.
You are nazi. Nothing to discuss with you.
It doesn’t seem very civilized. The people who are closed minded on other subjects remain closed minded here too. That only means that they are young and will have different opinions in time.
Have you ever heard of the Darwin Awards? I think Russia does a good enough job of killing their own.
http://www.vm.ee/estonia/pea_172/kat_399/998.html What have you got to say to that? Nothing, it was you, Soviets, who killed Jews and your own Russians, Estonians did not kille them.
What is surprising to me is that this is such an Ugly and Brutish looking statue…I can well understand it being a symbol of oppression…it just looks opressive.
Good Ridance to Bad Art.
Best Wishes, Traveller
actually, that’s the weird part of it - it does not look brutal to me. it looks sad. in my opinion, they should have left it there, but the deed is done, and that is NO REASON to go about destroying half of the city and injuring so many people in the process.
Ok! I agree that Estonia has been under the soviet rule for decades and that people never agreed to that rule and that, perhaps, the statue of the Soviet soldier embodied that violence that Estonia had been object to. Ok, I don’t deny it. But then you can’t ignore what kind of symbol this statue is for the Russian people, what WW2 means to a people who suffered so much from it and fought so sincerely against the fascists. Mind you, I am not talking of the political leaders who had signed a treaty with the nazi Germany before the beginning of the war. I am talking of simple people who died to protect their families and their country.(I don’t care if what Iam writing sounds pathetic and propaganda-like because it’s not and if you can’t understand it, all the worse for you.)
What I mean is that that statue and those soldiers buried underneath were important for the Russian and for the Russian minority in Estonia and the government could not ignore what kind of reaction the removing of the statue and the “excavation” of the bodies would trigger before May 9th. So, don’t say there was NO REASON (in capital letters) to destroy the city and the “injured people” were the demonstrators beaten by the police.
And it was all the Estonian government’s fault because it’s so busy undertaking “symbolic actions” to annoy Moscow instead of solving real problems like the legal status of the Russian minority.
Well then, you’ll be happy to know that it will be officially re-erected on may the 8.th, on a real cemetery.
It’s the only thing they can do now to prevent more demonstrations and more violence…
it was planned, of course, even before they took it down. The date was not set, however.
it is very sad to see monuments removed in this manner. monuments should stay no matter of politics. also it is very sad to see that estonians are building monuments to nazi forces and removing the ones which are supposed to celebrate victory over nazism.
katjusha,
can you please tell ONE monument that has been created to praise nazi in estonia? There is none. We hate nazis as we hate communists. The image of Estonia as nazis is a pure propaganda that has been created by Russian media.
The monument was moved from the center of the city to a military cemetery, where it is supposed to be. We’re not barbaric as Russian government who destroys monuments.
You built up at least 3 NAZI MONUMENTS during last year.
Bullshit.
Facts please?
i understand estonian point of view over russian ocupation during history but i really think that the monument shouldn’t be removed. leave the history behind, or you will face it once again. i wouldn’t say anything if there were no monuments like these:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5917/eesti0uk3.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7290/eesti1yr7.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3601/eesti2gb2.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4617/eesti3wi5.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1124/eesti4oi4.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8588/eesti5bd7.jpg
thanks katjusha for the pictures,
None of these monuments are built or supported by the Estonian government or the general public.
Some are built by some unfortunate WWII veterans that were forced to fight on german side and are commemorating their fallen comrades. The Estonian general public does not approve such statues.
The last photos are of a statue that the government actually removed by force, because it depicts a SS soldier - an equally bad memory for Estonias as the red soldier…
it is good to know that the government doesn’t approve such monuments. i hope the majority feels that way too. also i guess the main problem is media coverage because when reading about such things i always get a feeling estonia is far right orientated. so those “nazi monuments” are actually doing bad promotion for estonia. still i somehow feel that removing the bronze soldier statue is wrong because it is a monument to fallen solders and not some communist leaders like stalin, lenin or marx. but hey, at least the monument is not destroyed like in many other post communist countries like mine as well.
Yeah, and watch this video on how they discover Fascists in Latvia too : http://www.inosmi.ru/text/translation/247429.html
Actually, Russian guys who made the video work for Red Army TV channel. It is a typical BS or Russkies. But this time they took it too far - they are showing people murdered after Soviet invasion by NKVD secret police in 1940-1941 and claiming those to be Nazi victims.
That is how Russkies make their news. And then go around the world spreading this shit.
ТВ канал «Звезда» в своем видеосюжете от 08.02.2009 «Уроки истории по-латышски. Поиски фашистов», мусолящем излюбленную тему российского агитпропа про якобы «прославление нацизма» в Латвии, пичкает зрителей искаженной информацией, фальсификациями и просто чистой воды вымыслом. Верхом абсолютного пренебрежения истиной и безграничного цинизма является демонстрация жертв советского НКВД 1940-1941 гг. под видом жертв нацистов.
Данный видеофрагмент останавливается на всего трех эпизодах вышеупомянутого творения российских пропагандистов.
Для справки см. перевод inoСМИ.Ru статьи из газеты “Лауку Авизе” : http://www.inosmi.ru/text/translation/247429.html
to celebrate victory over nazism… and defeat under communism. i tend to agree on the “monuments should stay no matter of politics” part (with few exceptions of course), but which nazi monuments are you referring to? and a heads-up to everyone, this has long ago escalated to something far beyond the bronze guy, this is just violence for the sake of it.
i see your point. and most of all i really understand it. estonia suffered under soviet rule i i respect the estonian “bad” feelings toward russia. still, i think estonia should do more to get on positive track with russia and most of all with russians living in estonia. after all they live there now. everyone has its own pint of view of bronze soldier, i think of it as a monument to fallen antifascist soldiers. antifascism is the soul of modern europe so removing such monument is little bit tricky. no matter of the fact that it is a monument for fallen “soviet” soldiers.
Katjusha, monuments in the images that you have posted are also for the fallen soldiers, just as that bronze thing in the center of Talin.
Some of these monuments have been remowed by the government, because they depict a Nazi soldier. The Bronze Soldier depicts a Soviet soldier, ir is was remowed by the same government that removed Nazi soldier. So where is the problem?
The problem lies in differing Nazis and Soviets and not seeing their actual and obvious sameness. Im not speking about soldiers, but regimes who acted using the hands of these soldiers. The Nazis repressed anyone who wansn’t Arian (actually, anyone who wasn’t a Nazi, you could be the Arian of Arias, but if you weren’t also a Nazi, your race is not the obstacle to put you in a gass chamber). Soviets repressed almost everybody. So where is that big difference?
The difference exists only in the minds of the people who likes thoes big, soundly spouts, without seeing beyond them.
Do you even know the difference between fascizm and nazism?
To all estonian haters - apparantly most of you are from Russia. How would you like the monument to a mongol soldier in the center of Moscow? Or a lithuanian - polish invader of 17 th century?
I thought the post was funny.
woops. i didn’t read the whole thing. i guess it’s not so funny.
I can see this post will escalate to yet another verbal war between extremist on both (diferent) sides.
I call upon you all, to be tolerant and polite towards one another.
I also want to remind to everyone, that this sight is there for entertainment, not nationalist rhetoric.
Lets love and respect each others viewpoints!!!
I love you Texas1, be my second bitch!!
I won’t be your bitch, but I will be your friend.
Ok, maybe just ones a week on Monday??
Sorry, I’ve kind of got a thing got the mayor’s daughter of St. Petersburg.
U know what russian bride site i can get her on?
http://suckmydick.com
Sorrrryyyyy. Just a tasteless joke.
I’m just copying you.
Im from Latvia. I understand what Estonia goes through now. I hope there are no more deaths. Estonia, at least one man from Latvia is with you.
Keep going.
Can I ask you a question? As an American I’ve noticed that people from Baltic states still hate Russians, I really can’t understand why. Are russians repressing you now?
Are the people who repressed you during soviet occupation still alive?
Why do your people have to discriminante against ethnic russians? Why should the new generation of russians suffer for the mistakes of their grandfathers?
This terrible nationalism and hatred, should be stopped. You are now memebers of a new union (EU). And if your country wants to stay in this great union, you should really act more like a civilized nation!
The baltic nations DO NOT REPRESS anyone in our countries. In fact the russians and other minorities live in our countries a lot better than in Russia. We do not hate Russians. Most of the Russians in our countries are very nice people and we have nothing against them.
The image of Baltic countries repressing Russians has been created by Russian propaganda and media that is under the government control. By some twisted political reason, the Russian Government picks every once in awhile several of its neighbouring countries and just starts bullying them, the examples are numerous: Georgia, Moldova, Latvia, Estonia, Belorussia, Poland etc.
Just search the international news… They just can’t be peaceful with their neighbours…
I’ve visited Latvia and Lithuania about two years ago, and had contact with some russian friends of mine. They told me that they couldn’t even get a proper job becouse they were being discriminated against. Their living conditions were much below the average ethnic latvian, and they couldn’t even get proper health care.
When we went to the nearest bar, I could really feel the difference of service that was provided to them, in comparison to ethnic Latvians.
Thay told me that their life was a misery, and it was getting more worse every day. If they could, I am sure they would to go back Russia..
So tell me, - are their opinions also influenced by russian propaganda ?
While I can’t comment on the situation of your friends in Latvia, I can say, that In Estonia the Russians (or whichever other nationality for that matter) have the same opportunities as Estonians if they speak the local languague and respect local laws.
Roughly half of my friends are Russians here, and I can’t say that they are living significantly better or worse than my Estonian friends. Though, they have taken the time to learn our official languague and respect the Estonian history and our laws. Which can not be said about the maradeurs that are razing the shops on the streets of Tallinn at the moment…
i understand that estonian language is totally different from russian but why doesn’t government make russian as second official language? after all many russians are living there and are going to stay there. it is much better to make friendly gesture than to have a big part of its citizens as enemies.
i have a theory about that. you see, there are the russians in the baltic states with estonian citizenship, then there are the russians without one. if you are not a citizen, then yes, i believe your quality of life will suffer. plan a) get to know your country and apply for citizenship, plan b) live in relative misery or plan c) go to russia, which should not be very hard to pull off. The main problem with the local russians is that many of them have not learned our national languages (estonian, latvian or lithuanian that is). i’m sure you understand that it is very hard not to discriminate people who do not speak your language in your own country, especially when we are talking about applying for jobs. has it occurred to you that i know russians too - they have learned estonian and are thus NOT discriminated.
“This terrible nationalism and hatred, should be stopped. You are now memebers of a new union (EU). And if your country wants to stay in this great union, you should really act more like a civilized nation!”
okay, you DID understand that the thousands of people who trashed our central town were >95% russians?
People from Estonia, this person that goes by “Washington” is not from Washington.
You got me, I’m not from Washington..
I’m from Annapolis Virginia
You are an idiot Texas1. Do you really think people are dumb enough to believe that I’ve made that comment???
I could also use your name to make you look like a Idiot.
But i do actually have a life besides the Internet!!!
Pathetic!!!
See this is the length, that American propaganda will go to brainwash people and distort the truth!!!
What are you talking about?
I’ve figured out a bunch of your aliases. I wish they had private messaging on here. Do I have your e-mail?
if you look the third picture, you can notice that has been modified, as you can see like a blur, and a hole that remind me the game called Doom.
stop defending communist monument, Communism was born only to make the world a worst place to live
FUCK!
I am a GREAT fan of Russia and Russians, but you guys (Russians) make it sometimes hard to go on. You (not all) fucking hate mongering pricks, for example that asshole FAO and others should stop being such children! We ALL know what is the truth. Its sad that current regime in Kremlin feeds LIES to Russian public and causes futher alienation of Russia from other countries.
Many Russians always say: “Russia must be feared!” WHY THE FUCK? I for one would like more that Russia is respected for being liable and honest partner in all sferes of life instead of being SUCH A TOTALLY BRAINWASHED WANKER!
Grow up Russia, and you have a better future!
And kick that fucking Lavrov and other wanker out of office. Maybe even Putin!!
Geesh….
Great comment even if you are AmericaPhobe.
“I for one would like more that Russia is respected for being liable and honest partner in all sferes of life…” for selling its oil for peanuts to everybody, for buying from Poland its meet even if it doesn’t need it and for shutting up in front of the US…
Oups, I am SO brainwashed!
Eii Devushka. Ja pravda govorju!
Off course it doesnt need to shut up in front of US and sell oil for peanuts, but harassing small neighbourghs for directing pressure of shady goverment corruption in Russia is not what RESPECTED country would do! US allso is another example, hence the name AMERICAPHOBE!
And at the moment Russia buys meat from Poland etc, cos its own production isnt up to the demand. I saw CHINESE pork meat in Russia!
Respect comes out of trust not out of FEAR!!!
down with monuments to mass rapers/murderers. go eesti! with sympathy from .lv
This is the the kind of extremism that provokes heated arguments.
Grow up!!
Thanks for the clarification.
ESTONIANS .. aaai wiiill speeeaaak slooow toooo yooouu:
estonia, alongside of many other eastern european & baltic countries has been fucking with slavic russia long before ww2; no one knows why has this been going on, maybe cause slavs all you could rape and kill … . So consider ww2 to be a revenge sort of thing or maybe call it “Slavic Renaissance” and dont be offended if there is a statue of an invader (who was only there cause yove fucked aroud with him too much) in the center of Tallin .
My point is that when germans asked estonia and many other baltic and eastern fucks alike to join the war they were refusing untill an offer came to join the war for the purpose of extermination of what ? : slavic race : isnt that right? what did romanians say: “dead slavs: oh… we are in!! hei , then lets call up estonians ‘ - germans go ‘, … yes, they are slow, and often act neanderthalic, but if we offer them more dead russians , they would gladly, but .. sigh sloowly, join up with army group North”; (ever heard of ss-totenkoph? hmm .. who **was** in it?!);
so , i am sorry russians had protested 62 years later (or is it 162 or maybe 1062 years?) in your beloved (i dunno) town; it should never have happened, especially the damages; so if you could forgive us for damages ill forgive the for 47 million slavic people that were gassed, bombed , burned, shot, drowned, cut in pieces & thrown under tanks during ww2 just because they lived where they belong ! read your books .. and dont listen to A.Beevor as much;
so we’re responsible for the deaths of russians during WWII? and before that? c’mon, we’re a nation of perhaps one million ethnic estonians, and before WWII there were not too many russians living here. How are we responsible? There are a hundred and fifty times as many russians as there are estonians; the terretory of modern russia is more than 350 times larger than estonia’s territory.
Maybe those Russians were really dumb and didn’t know ho to duck.
im not talking about territory or population size: it is irrelevant to what i said;
[I'm not going to get into the "it's a photoshop"-argument here, but there's something I'll say anyway...]
I think those people who get so worked up about a few thoroughly rotted corpses and a big lump of bronze that they start to beat people up and break into shops are idiots.
Back when the muslims got their panties in a bunch because of the Jyllenposten comic strips and organized demonstrations and started to threaten people, I thought “geez, how can people be so stupid and childish?”… now it looks like people are just as retarded in the west. (If you consider Estonia to be a part of the “west”, that is… I at least do.)
Damn, you take some greenhouse effect, add some famine, a few antibiotic resistant superbacteria, shake and mix in gross over-population, pollution and poverty and hand it to people, they go “duh, not my problem, I don’t care”.
But then when it’s about events that happened before most of the same people were even born, and a statue of a guy who isn’t anyone in particular, and someone’s “national pride” or some other insubstantial, idealistic bullsh*t like that, then these people get off their asses and go “GODDAMN, THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! I’LL F*CKING KILL SOMEBODY OR AT LEAST BREAK A LOT OF STUFF!”… and to think that Russia has even taken this thing to a international level, what the hell do THEY want? Another war? Isn’t there ANYTHING more important for Putin and his comrades to worry about?
Seriously people, get a life (just make sure you don’t take mine).
Great comment!
Sir, you are so correct! I couldn’t have said it better myself!
My grandmother’s sister was sent to Estonia during the WWII together with her little daughter and was forced to work for nazi and estonians, so for me this monument symbolized those who had sacrificed their life to set her free from slavery. My friend’s grandfather died in Estonia fighting with nazi during the WWII, and for this friend this monument was a memory of his grandad. This monument was a stature of a soldier grieving about his dead friends, not a stature of Stalin, for example. It did not threaten Estonian independency. And there were many many people that lost their relatives during this war, many of their offsprings live in Estonia now, they were born and spent there all their life. Estonia got its independency long time ago, but it uses it to discriminate the national minority.
Anna, where have you been girl? I haven’t seen you on here in ages.
the statue, i remind you, has not just been “removed”, it was taken to another place. when this is all over, you can still go there with flowers, i believe it’s a nice tradition - as long as it’s not violent and you know our history as it is. were the fifty years under soviet rule not slavery for ethnic estonians?
At last somebody writing something sensible!!!
At last somebody trying to show what WW2 means for Russian people and what that statue meant. Millions of Russian people were killed and every Russian person has at least a member of his or her family who was killed during WW2. And so when the estonian government decides to take away that statue and to lead “excavations” of the bodies of those soldiers just a few days before May 9th, for a lot of Russians it feels like their grandfathers and fathers are being digged out and it feels like an insult. And the government should have known it and if it wanted to remove the grave, it should have acted differently and at another moment. And all the violent reactions are their fault.
Hi sweetie
I am not “sweety”, moron.
Rather “not sweetie” (I am a stupid russian blond: I don’t master W Faulkner’s language very well) lol
hmhh. the violent reactions are the protester’s fault. you’ll have your statue back before the ninth of may, and please (i’m not talking specifically about you, because you seem reasonable) leave our cities and towns alone. WWII was bad for the russian commoner, but it was at least equally bad for the estonian commoner. don’t forget that.
above all, however, we should remember that the second world war IS the past, we do not live in a time of war, and we do not have an illegal communist, fascist or nazi government. let’s try to get along! and not just the estonians and russians in estonia, why not the estonians and russians in estonia AND russia? or every nation? a tall order, but bad times like these (should) remind us that everyone should get along. so what if you feel it was a provocation to move the statue (i don’t, but i’m estonian and probably considerably different from you). DON’T SUBMIT TO PROVOCATIONS. this also goes for the estonian idiots who gathered on the second day of the protests and acted violently towards the russians.
there’s one thing that someone should explain to me. i’m not a person who wants russians (or anyone else for that matter)deported (except perhaps those who directly provoke mass violence), but what about the people who yelled “rossija, rossija!”, why did they do that? if they like russia so much, well… the borders are open, aren’t they?
okay, actually, one more question (or note). the russians have their memorial(s) for the second world war, the most famous of them being the bronze soldier. but what about the estonians - if we wanted a statue of a soldier from the second world war, then we’d be in trouble - we’d either have to clothe the statue in a soviet uniform or a german uniform - the latter is what happened in lihula.
If WW2 is the past, then why removing that statue in the first place? You’re independent now, you’re in the EU: why bothering about a piece of bronze? The thing is: people are NOT reasonable and they have feelings (I sound wishy-washy and girlish, right?) and they have symbols and the removing of that statue meant a lot both for the Estonian and the Russian. And I am not saying the statue shouldn’t have been removed: I am saying it should have been done differently, on another moment.
…and to your surprise, i agree with you. but even so, finding reasons for violence is madness.
commies… liberals… all the same, all a running figure in the scope of mg-42… we mowed like grass your lame-o soldiers back then and we will find the way to kill them now. target, are you ready to die?
yes i am ready to die; and take 11 617 germans with me; small local community; i wanna at least match this so many dead;
ahaha this fucking website censors
Well, so it goes, again tonight, dem` Ruskies sure are frisky!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6602171.stm
Best Wishes,
Traveller
Hey A. Beevor has written one of the greatest book about world war on eastern front neither pro nazi nor pro soviet
Don’t fear about watch your history, everyone had commited mistakes, but only the best can assume it
I dunno, I like Estonian girls - they are hot, because a lot of a russian sperm were thrown into, that mix makes me crazy$)
putin has sead several times that all the russians could come home from estonia and they would get a home and a job evrything paid.PUT THEY DONT WANT TO.WHY?????
WHY they scream on the sreets russia,russia,russia???
go home to your russia if you dont like it in there, that bronx soldier simbolises deth to hundreds of thousends estonians who where taken to siberia TO DIE!!!
or learn the language, most of russians who are born and raised in estonia still dont speek estonian (no shit its true)
Well shit guys, the pic is clearly edited, just examine the brick pattern before and after.
Whatever happened 60+ years ago is history. Live in the today.
Estonia, Latvia, Russia.. you guys have a lot more in common then what differentiates you.
Come to America and we can talk about it over a beer.
Peace.
-AzMan
истонцы пидарасы!!!!!у пендосав мазгов наверна больше чем у этих клапов блят!!!!!!!!
ДАЁШЬ ПАГРОМ НА ВСЮ КАТУШКУ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
an example of the Soviet way of getting rid of the monuments commemorating those fallen in Estonia’s War of Independence:
http://www.ekspress.ee/fotodb/22CFB39EA065E288C2257275003FD06C?open&json=1
… not photoshopped.
Different time, different situation.
these are russians cheering after having blown up another estonian memorial. the point I was trying to make was that it seems to be ok for russians to destroy memorials in whatever country they choose to do commit their atrocities; however, it is no ok for estonians to RELOCATE a memorial… grow up, children, what’s happening is not about estonia, it’s about russia feeling that it’s losing control. that’s all there is to it. the riot of the past two nights had been carefully arranged by russia, the marauding and looting and destryoing just concurred with it. however, most of the russians living in estonia have brains and do not approve of what has been happening, these russians can speak several foreign languages (inc. estonian), CAN read and not brainwashed by russian media.
the russians are cheering after having blown up an estonian memorial 50 years ago.
The memorial that is now being relocated is dedicated to the soldiers who gave their lives liberating Estonia, full stop. Regardless of what people now see it as, it was built with that in mind. So for the people that lost family members, I think there is a good reason to be upset, don’t you? By the same token, you have every right to be upset as there were plenty of atrocities commited during the occupation. The Estonian response seemed to be somewhat provocative and used this as a means to hammer home the point that Estonia could no longer be bullied by its neighbor.
What kind of reaction did you really expect, especially considering how the government used this as nationalist propoganda. It could have been handled much better by the authorities. That said, the rioting was despicable. There is no place for that kind of violence and it just serves to prove the nationalist point of view..
“liberating” Estonia?
Come on, then was Estonia a free country afterwards?
On the east side it was start of occupation, and that is full stop.
Russian now tends to say that she was only a victim of 2nd WW and that most of effort fighting Germany was made by her. Ever wondered why so many Russian people and soldiers died? First belief that German - friends and allies - won’t attack (yes allies - before 2nd world war Russia was providing vast amounst of resources to Hitler’s Germany and Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was the peek of the cooperation). Second. Second treating own people like meat in human wave tactics - that is Soviet Russia speciality. Also leaving thousands of people unevacuated in the cities defended by army - really mercifull thing.
Now Mr. Putin saying that external powers are treating Russia independence, killing democracy with changing the elections rules to be only in service to current vierchovka, limiting freedom of speech to the extent that is comparable to USSR times.
What do historical books used in Russian schools say about times from 1918 to 1989 ? Tell me. How is pre 2nd WW war 2nd WW war and post war time described?
War for nazi Germany, to be correct!
I agree with azmann. And the saddest thing is, that you missed the point of this statue. It is remainder of what happenes if people do not get along.
BTW: where the hell is administrator. This forum is one of the most rasist I have ever seen!
you must be new here…
This is freedom of speech. By discussing things openly then maybe you will learn something about the other side.
this is far from from discussing things…
indeed - when people scream FUCK YOU I WANT TO SEE YOU DEAD, then that is not discussion, that’s ugly ranting
Of course, this is how the Russian Euro-trash talks. They don’t know any better and would prefer to be uncivil. Does it surprise anyone?
It’s ugly ranting but it it freedom of speech. Better to get it out than suppress it.
If this is American idea of freedom of speech than I am not surprised why you have problems with Muslims, Afro-Americans etc. and the rest of the world. One thing is to have different opinion, but another thing is how you express it. And most of comments do not contribute anything to conversation, but are posted only to provoke.
That’s the point. Once everyone gets bored with the provocative comments they will settle down and move onto something more peaceful.
Americans sure have a strange way of solving issues. So if I am correct I can tell you whatever I want. Like that you are fucking idiot, total retard, motherfucker etc. and after all this insults we will peacefully continue with conversation. Well, maybe I USA, but surely not here in EU.
You’re getting the idea.
fucking estonians…what’s their problem bothering themselves with this kind of nonsens…go help the poor or something.
I geuss Estonia thought: Ey guys we haven’t been in the news lately!…lets demolish the Bronze Soldier.
more shots :
http://www.flick.ee/index.php?action=show_image&image=2288&page=0
http://www.flick.ee/index.php?action=show_image&image=2291&page=0
http://www.flick.ee/index.php?action=show_image&image=2292&page=0
http://www.flick.ee/index.php?action=show_image&image=2299&page=0
http://www.flick.ee/index.php?action=show_image&image=2305&page=0
To Washington:
Russian people in LATVIA and other Baltic states are not discriminated, if same Russian people keep order laws and respect our history, and do not to call as a fascists.With fascism we have not any relation.
Russians didn`t live in worse living conditions than Latvian people.
Russians discriminate itself, many russians principialy ddn`t want to get citizenship and learn official langunage.
Russians feels resentful, because they no more goveners there, and high-powered propoganda from Kremlin and local russian politics force this resentful feeling.
This problem is very complicated and emocional, and still while generation who experienced events from 1939 - 1991 will be alive.
Many, many russians(I not say all) is very agressive and violent. Sometimes in nights russian crowd walking down to Streets of Riga and other cities and says approximately that:
“You are Latvian?!”
And, if answer is positve they starts beating.
In prisons 85 % of prisoners is people russian nationality,and they are sentenced for very grave crimes, like a robberies, murderings and banditism.
You are NAZI, i tell it once again! And most crimes in Latvia made by Latvians. And you are responsible for crimes of Russians because you drive them in the poverty!
Russians can get job in Estonia because of nazi estonian government that support fascists!
Hey, do you know meaning of the word NAZI??!!!
Do you have any argumentation for your expresions???!
I think you are very shallow and dumb person like part of russians who are poor.
Many russians are very inteligent un not poor. Most of the businessmans are Russians, in top 100 richer people list most of them are russians.
But most of them are lazy and dumb, they didn`t want to get work, better they robber cell phones on streets or drinking illegal cheap vodka and beating other people.
cheap vodka
I’m poor? You are an idiot! I’m millionaire!
They can’t get job because of the nazi policy of you fascist government!
I not tell anything about your financial status, only about your understanding of situation and your narrow-minded NAZI expresions.
Where is your arguments that i am NAZI ?!!!
You are NAZI because you support nazi policy of your nazi government (oppressions on Russians and other minorities).
Hey LV,
Don’t get discouraged by Borah. He just likes gets pissed when his dad gets more gay sex than him.
Russian people are discriminated in Estonia. They do not have citizenship, they are forbidden to study and work using their own language. Europe has double standards for Russian an Serbian people and all the rest. In Finland there is official second language because 4% of the population are Swedish. In Romania in Transilvania only hungarian language is used officially, because there live mostly Hungarians. Only Russians are forbidden to use their language, though in Estonia more than 25% of population are Russians.
Fuck you Anna. Dont drag Finland in your stupid arguments against Estonia. Im from Finland and fucking hate that we are forced to learn Swedish (even thought no-fucking-body will need it in their life)
The same could be said about the United States. If you want to go to college, a foreign language is a requirement in nearly every university.
I am a Finn too. For me studying Swedish was a no-brainer, even fun, and I have needed it too.
So puppeli: do not generalize by saying we if only you don’t like Swedish.
Anna, could you tell us which are the official languages of Russia?
I think this language thing in Estonia works in both directions. Because the majority speaks Estonian, everybody should be able to speak and write it. And also because a large minority speaks Russian, it would be good if most Estonians could speak Russian.
I have been looking thru job announcements in Estonia. In all interesting vacancies the language requirement is Estonian and Russian. And if it is a sales job in Russian market I suppose an ethnic Russian would have an advantage compared to an Estonian.
http://www.postimees.ee/foto/8/7/944784631d13456f9d_3.jpg
This is the montage of the Bronze Soldier at his new location in the near future - Inner City cemetery where other war heroes are buried.
The soldier was not destroyed, only moved to another place.
PHOTOSHOPPED! ESTONIAN NAZI PROPAGANDA AT ITS BEST!
Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki
Do you know meaning of the word NAZI ?
Tell me your arguments, why you can call me as a NAZI !!
You are very shallow person. Thats person like a you starts all national conflitcs.
People drives in povetry itself, because they are shallowed and dumb like a you.
Many latvian people are poorly too, but they didnt go to steal
and beats people to take cell phones.
I TELL YOU ONCE AGAIN - YOU AND YOUR NAZI GOVERNMENT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR CRIMES!
RUSSIANS IN LATVIA ARE ABOUT 30% AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE RUSSIAN LANGUAGE IN SCHOOLS, UNIVERSITIES, ETC…
1. Russians were deprived of citizenship by Latvian and Estonian governments.
2. Russians can’t get work because of Latvian / Estonian government. And they are driven into poverty.
3. Russians can’t study on their language.
4. Russians were driven into poverty. 95% officials in Estonia and Latvia are Estonians and Latvians while they are about 60% of all population. Russians are forbidden to work in the official structures.
Ohh God your mind is damaged by fucking Kremlin propoganda too!
I not tell anything about your financial situation, only about your understanding of the situation and your narrowminded nazi expressions.
1.
In 4th may 1990 when was accepted declaracy about recovery of independecy there was writen that our country not new country but
same country that was founded in 1918.
If in 1990 had founded new country then all people would get citizenship.
In USSR times Russian population there increased unnaturally.
Very high amount of Russian and Belorussian people were bringed there while Latvian people with trains were deported away, like in other USSR republics. Plan was to Russificate
baltic states and destroy our nationalities.
Citizenship in 1990 got only
these persons that was citizens in 1940 and was their posterits. All other people can get citizenship by easy naturalision process. Only need pass test in short history course and pass elementar official langunage test. Around 140 000 has done this process and has got citizenship.
2. wtf ?? Had you ever been in Latvia/Estonia ? It`s holly stereothipic shit.
Its only qualification question, if you have qualification you can work, like other people. There is a lack of workers, all people that wants to work has jobs. People from Belorusia, Moldova migrate there for working.
3. From clases 1 to 9 are rusian schools, wich has financed by goverment. ( In Russian Federation are goverment financed scholls for minorities ?? and why in your country restricted to Cossacks use latin alphabet??)
In classes 10 - 12 goverment financed schools, some subjects
has learned in official langunage (like a sport math, chemistry) it is because russians children are easyer to study in university , but cultural subjects like a (russian literature , russian grammar) has learned in russian.
But you can open your private highscholl and learn childrens in Russian, Chineese and other langunages.
In Latvia all Universities wich is financed by goverment official langunage is countries official langunage.
In Latvia are many private universities, there official university langunage has writen in scholls laws. In latvia has one private university in english languange and noone in Russian, why ?
You are milionarie, please open there some university or highscholl in Russian !!
I study in one goverment university where are many russian students and all is Ok. For students whose are dificulties to write Latvian, professors allow to write a tests in russian. THERE ARE NO DISCRIMINACY!!
4. There is only one reason why some,but not all, many people are forbiden to work in the official structures, because they in USSR time were VDK(FSB) agents and are unloyal for republic of latvia.
There is many POLITICS russians in parliment, many teachers, lectors, policemans, experts, are russians there are newspapers , radio, TV in russian langunage.
Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki
Do you know meaning of the word NAZI ?
Tell me your arguments, why you can call me as a NAZI !!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are very shallow person. Thats person like a you starts all national conflitcs.
People drives in povetry itself, because they are shallowed and dumb like a you.
Many latvian people are poorly too, but they didnt go to steal
and beats people to take cell phones.
Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki
Do you know meaning of the word NAZI?
Tell me your arguments, why you can call me as a NAZI!!!!!
You are very shallow person. Thats person like a you starts all national conflitcs.
People drives in povetry itself, because they are shallowed and dumb like a you.
Many latvian people are poorly too, but they didnt go to steal
and beats people to take cell phones.
Hey, that relations between Russia and Estonia (and Latvia and Litva and Poland and Georgia and Ukraine and so sooo on..) may be very good if highlined countries stop to be like little stupid dogs without a cord, barking on the man on cycle, trying to bite his ankles. Russia is NOT the USSSR now, and all of these countries may live calmly they own lives, Russia didn’t give a shit about them, but it hard to stay wise to Russian government and simply Russians when this bites hirt Russian great history.
The point is even not the relations between Russia and Estonia, but that Estonia discriminates one quarter of ITS OWN population and the western countries prefer not to notice it!
@ Anna
Let’s make love not war.
Take a look a those friendly allies …
http://www.hot.ee/liitlased/
speaks for itself, doesn’t it?
Those pics are 70 years old.
you utterly miss the point of these pictures, don’t you?
There is no relevancy to today. Those people are no longer alive.
I wish you were right. But it is relevant because there are people alive who do remember. This is a difficult subject. The peoples of these areas have been subjected to titanic forces that some people, particularly Americans, do not understand.
no relevancy? these two events - the erection of the Bronze Soldier and the invasion of Poland are only 8 years apart. no relevancy? dear texas1, think again. and this time - do think.
Damn, you people really know how to live in the past.
http://www.ap3.ee/Default.aspx?link=http://www.ap3.ee/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=c81af2f3-19ef-421f-9729-ea0d7eaef030AMMPreadcomment=1#comment
this is what a typical protester looked like ….
http://www.ap3.ee/Default.aspx?link=http://www.ap3.ee/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=c81af2f3-19ef-421f-9729-ea0d7eaef030AMMPreadcomment=1#comment
Brothel and lack of order always cause violence, aggression and other bad things that usually are hidden. That is a fault of those who provoked these protests: estonian goverment.
Anna!!!! My friend!!!!! My second me!!!!!
The estonian government has acted SO awkwardly!
I am russian in Estonian.I learn estonian,work here,have a chlidrens and….
I DONT see and feel diskriminations in Estonia.
I like live here.
MR.ANSIP and the Goverment Estonia make litle mistake:
The soldiers should be removed many years ago, but Estonia was hoping in the integration russians in the estonia.
Russians.What language you use: very BAD!
You are not Russian. And stop making mistakes in your English to simulate non-native user of English!
Estonians, stop your nazi policy of oppressions on Russians and other minorities! Stop nazi policy of your nazi government!
ESTONIANS, STOP YOUR NAZI OPPRESSIONS ON RUSSIANS AND OTHER MINORITIES!
Borah, you are outnumbered. Does that tell you anything?
Идиоты.
Russian president suggested memorial and massgrave should be moved to Russia, but estonian goverment disagreed.
ESTONIANS, STOP YOUR NAZI OPPRESSIONS ON RUSSIANS AND OTHER MINORITIES!
Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki has been brainwashed by Russian propaganda. The Estonians were the ones who asked Russia nicely to move the bones there, but Russia said fuck off, in a nice way, ofcourse. All the threadts by Russia are bullshit. If they would cut any relations with Estonia, there would be no high positioned russians here to fund the riots anymore.
Russia hasn`t even appologized for the mass-murders like Germany and Italy did. Thats why the world hates Russian.
The world doesn’t hate Russians. The world to hates Nazi Fascists like you and your nazi government!
Are you sure?
Il bet you 3 out of 5 people in ANY European/American country will say they hate (or dislike) russians because of:
*Russia is not democratic (well yea you have elections… but then you jail all your oposing partys)
*Russia is broke (over 70% in Russia live in poverty)
*Russia is full of alcoholics (on average a Russian drinks 8 times more alcohol than anyone else, every last year at least 10.000 people die from alcohol overdoze in russia)
*Russia opresses its nebiours (baltic states are a drop in the sea, compared to russian south-eastern neibours)
*Russia is throughy corrupt (an average policeman in Russia gets more money from bribes in a week that hes months pay)
And many more reasons…
Oh, comon, are an idiot? Who cares about bribes? Democratic Party in USA was created on bribes!!! Corruption in Russia is what you call lobbying in USA and EU.
That’s not true. Most americans if asked would indicate that Russia is an alli.
I am sorry can you clarify how exactlly modern Russia oppresses Baltic states?
Baltic media propoganda is doing all it can to discredit russia government. Why?
Russian is not your Enemy!! Soviet Union is gone! Wake up man, cold war is over. Do not encourage another one!!!
“The world hates Russian” - I really don’t think many countries hate Russia. THE world hate US -yes, not Russia.
probably
Ohh God your mind is damaged by fucking Kremlin propoganda too!
I not tell anything about your financial situation, only about your understanding of the situation and your narrowminded nazi expressions.
1.
In 4th may 1990 when was accepted declaracy about recovery of independecy there was writen that our country not new country but
same country that was founded in 1918.
If in 1990 had founded new country then all people would get citizenship.
In USSR times Russian population there increased unnaturally.
Very high amount of Russian and Belorussian people were bringed there while Latvian people with trains were deported away, like in other USSR republics. Plan was to Russificate
baltic states and destroy our nationalities.
Citizenship in 1990 got only
these persons that was citizens in 1940 and was their posterits. All other people can get citizenship by easy naturalision process. Only need pass test in short history course and pass elementar official langunage test. Around 140 000 has done this process and has got citizenship.
2. wtf ?? Had you ever been in Latvia/Estonia ? It`s holly stereothipic shit.
Its only qualification question, if you have qualification you can work, like other people. There is a lack of workers, all people that wants to work has jobs. People from Belorusia, Moldova migrate there for working.
3. From clases 1 to 9 are rusian schools, wich has financed by goverment. ( In Russian Federation are goverment financed scholls for minorities ?? and why in your country restricted to Cossacks use latin alphabet??)
In classes 10 - 12 goverment financed schools, some subjects
has learned in official langunage (like a sport math, chemistry) it is because russians children are easyer to study in university , but cultural subjects like a (russian literature , russian grammar) has learned in russian.
But you can open your private highscholl and learn childrens in Russian, Chineese and other langunages.
In Latvia all Universities wich is financed by goverment official langunage is countries official langunage.
In Latvia are many private universities, there official university langunage has writen in scholls laws. In latvia has one private university in english languange and noone in Russian, why ?
You are milionarie, please open there some university or highscholl in Russian !!
I study in one goverment university where are many russian students and all is Ok. For students whose are dificulties to write Latvian, professors allow to write a tests in russian. THERE ARE NO DISCRIMINACY!!
4. There is only one reason why some,but not all, many people are forbiden to work in the official structures, because they in USSR time were VDK(FSB) agents and are unloyal for republic of latvia.
There is many POLITICS russians in parliment, many teachers, lectors, policemans, experts, are russians there are newspapers , radio, TV in russian langunage.
facts:
*Russia demolishes 2ww monuments for russian soliders
*Estonia moves 2ww monuments for russian soliders to more apropriate places
*Every Russian who has Estonian citizenship is equal to an estonian
*Russians who dont have Estonian citizenship and cant speak estonian (even though living in estonia) are provided with Russian Schools, Libararies etc. They can even get every last job, and estonian can (they cannot work in goverment offices, if they dont speak the naitive language)
*there are far more nazis in Russia than in Estonia (not by number
but by percent)
*there have been numerous nazi (skinhead) riots in russia (within last year), there has been 1 skinhead “riot” in estonia (in last 15 years) whitch consisted of 6 skinheads
Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki is either ignotrant moron or unfunny troll
http://www.ap3.ee/Default.aspx?link=http://www.ap3.ee/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=cee655bf-1a75-4977-acb3-3b382899acf4
You RUSSAIN asholes STOP steal vodka from shops, your imperical ambitions sucks, !
A ti piderasss Borah a.k.a. Sarah Levi-Alkolupukki, polu4ish po jebalu nahuj sranij suka, chto ti te gonjish sukinsin bljedj nahuj.
You are an estonian nazi scum! I don’t wanna even talk with you! Death to the fascists!
coMMon people: we need to concentrate on real issues here: which is … the muslims; by 2045 french muslims will declare JIHAD on the republican state of alaska which will result in complete takeover due to thier exponetial growth and inability of alaskan prime minister ‘Um!ataini Islam to supress crowds of violent alaskan minoritie comonly referred to whitta_mussaraa;
you shtinky hui; we are shervants of allah and muhhamed is our saviour; and yesh we will take over alashka; allah aq’baar & fuck all of you , eshpecially ‘Um!ataini Ishlam and may i point out - ibn HASSAN!!
you shtinky hui; we are shervants of allah and muhhamed is our saviour; and yesh we will take over alashka; allah aq’baar & fuck all of you , eshpecially ‘Um!ataini Ishlam and may i point out - ibn HASSAN!!
dont worry : in 2 weeks all estonians will be dead or pregnant; i will visit their maturnetie clinics or graves and will maybe even leave my svd(tiger) and condoms on/at one off them to pay respects to brave estonina people; endeed a worthy enemie, and most importantly a very good friend i any cases;
But you`re too poor to even buy a condom.
nono .. im not russia; i german - i have a condom;
to all you russians, I really begin to see your point, which is that…
[1]In the beginning the Big Great Russian created the heaven and the earth.
[2]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of the Big Great Russian moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And the Big Great Russian said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4] And the Big Great Russian saw the light, that it was good: and the Big Great Russian divided the light from the darkness.
[5] And the Big Great Russian called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
[6] And the Big Great Russian said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
[7] And the Big Great Russian made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
[8] And the Big Great Russian called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
[9] And the Big Great Russian said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
[10] And the Big Great Russian called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and the Big Great Russian saw that it was good.
[11] And the Big Great Russian said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
[12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and the Big Great Russian saw that it was good.
[13] And the evening and the morning were the third day.
[14] And the Big Great Russian said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
[15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
[16] And the Big Great Russian made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
[17] And the Big Great Russian set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
[18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and the Big Great Russian saw that it was good.
[19] And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
[20] And the Big Great Russian said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
[21] And the Big Great Russian created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and the Big Great Russian saw that it was good.
[22] And the Big Great Russian blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
[23] And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
[24] And the Big Great Russian said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[25] And the Big Great Russian made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[26] And the Big Great Russian said, Let us make man, A Lesser But Still A Mighty Russian in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and, of course, over every nation in the world which he can bully.
[27] So the Big Great Russian created man in his own image, in the image of the Big Great Russian created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And the Big Great Russian blessed them, and the Big Great Russian said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And the Big Great Russian said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat; and every little nation thou canst bully shalt be thine to bully.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And the Big Great Russian saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
And on the seventh day the Big Great Russian ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Then, the following week, he thought that he would invent the radio, the telephone, the steam-engine and other useful gadgets ….
Ya! Ha ha. That’s about the time the big great Russian said screw it, we’ll just try to copy the US.
LMAO - at both posts. Brilliant!
хуя тут каментаф,как на удаве
хорошая тема,фтыкаем
http://udaff.com/politsru/70424.html
ESTONIANS AND GOVERNMENT OF ESTONIA! STOP DISCRIMINATION ON RUSSIANS AND OTHER MINORITIES! STOP YOU NAZI FASCIST OPPRESSION IMMEDIATELY!
ti zakroi svoei rot urod, STOP YOUR BULLSHIT STALIN`S SYPHILITIC DICK !
Shame on you Estonia for rewriting history!
Shame on you Estonia for forgetting how you helped Hitler build concentration camps where Jewish woman and children were starved and burned alive!
Same on you Estonians for making old and frail ethnic Russians learn you difficult language, or stay in poverty!
Shame on you Estonia for discriminating and incriminating ethnic Russians who just want to earn enough to stay alive!
Shame on you Estonia for allowing racism, nationalism and anti-Semitism in the media!
Shame on you Estonia for distributing propaganda and lies about good Russian people.
And, shame on you Estonia for manipulating and brainwashing your own people to hate Russia, in order to win some political points with the US.
You can lie all you want, and make Russia appears as bad as you like. But good people will know who are the real victims of your repressive state!
Russian people - we are with you on your difficult fight against nazism.
A friend from Elat.
We are rewriting history? what about hundreds of monuments, statues russians destroyed in Estonia, hell even in Russia itself. What about the russian soldiers raping women, children in germany and doing fuck knows what during WW2, which ofcourse they say is “LIES”.
Russia still denies it and tries to look big with its military (lol)and what not. Stop sucking Putins cock and grow yourself a backbone.
Hell, I wouldn`t be suprised if Russia spends more money on propaganda than medical care, etc.
You are forgetting that over 12 millions of Russians (not army but civilians) were killed by Germans.
And how many people were killed by USSR inavasion ???
How many people were starved in GULAG camps ?
Why your army still rape Chechen womens and kill their husbands??
and when russia will build water treatment plant in Kalaningrad where population are over 500 000 and will stop to shit in baltic sea ?
SHAME ON YOU big russian wreck.
Stop playing childish.
There were about 4.2 millions of repressed during Staling times. 2 millions of them died.
During ww2 13 millions people died in the battles against nazi Germany. About 12 millions civilians were murdered by Germans. 3,5 millions were taken to German death camps.
After WW2 less than 1 million of crimean tatars and chechenians were not killed but sent to Kazahstan because they were collaborating with Germans.
Latvians are not better.
Not even smart enough, so you had to copy Litva and get the president from Canada.
All the sucsefful people in you country are RUSSIANS and other cultures.
With the way it’s going you’ll be Europe bitch in no time
Estonia should be kicked out of EU, until it can learn to respect other nationalities, combat fanatical Nazism, Anti-Semitism and stop repressing ethnic minorities!!
Good day>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqUDVMVEJgE&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4×6wRV-BoY&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdgfbWEgUBM&mode=related&search=
Everyone knows that Estonians were collaborating with Nazists and fought on the Nazi German side. Shame on you!
Now Estonians continue oppressions on minorities in Estonia.
Why they’ve decided to move monument right before The Day of Victory? Why did they refuse to move this monument to Russia?
Why does nazi SS veterans march freely in Estonia?
The answer is simple! Nazi Estonian government just want to continue oppressions on Russians and other minorities!
The Nazis were actually the better choice of two really bad choices. At least the germans weren’t killing us… they were only killing jews. But russians on the other hand killed millons of peaceful estonians and occupied our country… I’m not saying the fascists were a good choice, but for our nation, they definately were the better choice of two extremely bad ones.
And anybody who thinks the third picture is real is a total moron. And the anti-spam word is comrade written with red letters. Pure fucking communist propaganda. I just can’t understand how you didn’t learn anything from the last time you tried communism, It failed,fucked up your country and killed vast amounts of people… wanna try that again?
You are a perfect example of brainwashing. Millions of Estonians? Ha-ha… Propaganda at its best. Brainwashing….
The millins of people part was a typo, a mistake (thousands of people were still killed). But are you saying that my grandparents are lying and my father wasn’t born in Syberia and wasn’t starving there? (just brainwashing me!?) You are the one that’s feeding lies to the people here, so that the riot would go on and Russia would have another reason to take dumps on Estonia…
russia refused to accept that monument.
“Same on you Estonians for making old and frail ethnic Russians learn you difficult language, or stay in poverty!”
Yeah, but how about the young and strong?
In my opinion you learn whatever language in 15 years, if you want to.
bora,
Good news! You have access to the internet and no longer have to read the Russian Government’s propaganda.
fuck u all
Do people still name their kids Igor? I thought that name was just reserved for old vampire movies.
You are sheep fucker go to hell
Please vote!
http://www.eesti.portal.ee/index.php?lang=en
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqUDVMVEJgE&mode=related&search=
Estonia was always a part of Russian Empire. So in 1940 they just took back what once belonged to them.
not always - we have formerly been annexed by the germans, danish, swedes…
those people, who were considered as the educated side of estonians (lydia koidula, hurt etc) were thinking about independent estonia back in 1860-s. Why the hell did we have a first songfestival then? even then, 1869, we sung about freedom. And that’s like….60 years before we actually were independent. nobody even KNEW about lenin, yet.
no it wasnt.
estonian educators thought about independent estonia before lenin, back 1869, we had the first song festival and even then we sung about freedom. nobody knew nothing about lenin.
Firstly, the picture of the “Bronce soldier” is fake! On the internet you can read and see the real thing about it. The estonian government removed the statue away in one piece. And is safetly guarded until the end of the riots.
secondly, the dead russian was killed by an another russian.
And the soldier wasn’t moved away because of The Day of Victory, it was caused by the riot in Tallin. The government decided to remove the statue to keep away further riots.
Do you think that this is protecting a monument,when people just start lifting shops,burn everything on their way and tear busstops apart?! That is just pure VANDALISM!
The people who are vandalizing on the streets of Tallin are mostly jung russian-spoken drunken teenagers,with them is easy to manipulate. That’s the reason why TEACHERS bring 10 to 14 aged children to the monument and tell them to scream out loud that estonians are fascists! Those teachers teach the children the history what they want,not what’s true and what the rest of the world knows.
Do any of you have any idea what the statue symolizes? For your information,when the russians came to “free” Estonia, it already was a free country, so they occupied Estonia and THIS is what the bronze soldier simbolizes!
Have any of you seen what the vandals have done in Estonia in last two nights? You have been blinded, you haven’t seen the real thing, because media shows only what russian media shows. I give you a link, where you can see all that,what FREE media from all over the world shows.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7FfUzj0Dw&mode=related&search=
Look very carefully the second video, how the vandals are stealing! Is there any excuse of stealing?! NO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6hlDO56s3U&mode=related&search=
In conclusion, do not believe anything what you read,what is based on russian media!
Estonia propoganda has now reached English Russia well and truly. The russian died due to brutal force that was used by police, which incidentaly doesn’t even compare to the force used in Kasparov rally..
Many more people, including woman and childern are now injured and many more can die>
You don’t hear this in Blatic press, do you? I wonder why???
People of lativia, - stop this ridiculous and groundless hate towards Russian people. They have also been repressed under soviet regime, and they certanlly do not deserve to be blamed for the things done by soviet despots.
Stop reading your biased and nationalist newspapers controlled by CIA, and be friends with russian people!!
Our world is getting smaller than ever. We will soon live as one whether you like it or not. So lets start getting on with one another now, to save us all a shock of living in a unipolar world!!!
Good day
The russian was stabbed to death. I didn`t know policemen carried knives.
Another lamb brainwashed by the Russian propaganda you are.
Sure, that’s what Estonian authorities say. They also denied the use of excessive force..
Do you honestly think they will admit to it??
Man, you’ve been brainwashed beyond redemption…;)
PS: I am not russian. And I certainly can’t be brainwashed by “Russian propaganda”, because i don’t even live in Russia..lol!!
Riiiiiiiiight
That ain’t propaganda… I know people that saw that shit. There were just a bunch of drunk idiots raving and robbing stores. (occasionaly having fights amongst themselves)
I know there are decent protestors as well, but they are quiet and don’t vandalize. The idiots are raving everywhere.
AND WTF IS GOING ON WITH THE ANTI-SPAM WORDS!!!!?
Last time it was comrade, now stalin!?!?!
Can it spell communist propaganda more clearly?
Stalin was a fricken murderer and anybody who doesn’t admit it, obviously doesn’t know chicken-shit about history. (much like the twelve year old protestors)
Boris,
The looter that got killed, was stabbed by another dumb (and probably drunk) looter (or “bronze soldier protector”, if you will) as himself.
The criminal investigation has been started, and the killer will be put in jail for many years.
Basically all injuries that have been reported on the rioters side, were on their heads or hands and caused by the shattered glass when they broke the windows of the shops to loot them. Many these so called “bronze soldier protectors” were even so dumb to smile to the cameras with the loot that they grabbed from the shops. The pictures are all over the internet. All this evidende material is collected by the police, and the looters will get their punishment.
so the police had to sit back, give a candy to those vandalists and say:”oh you’re a good boy, aren’t you?”
of course they needed to use force, but trust me, they didn’t overdo it. in other parts of world the police is even worse. and in the situation of crisis, you need to act fast.
Well lets see.
Now, I wonder where the media could be more influenced by government - in Estonia or in Russia?
In the Reporters Without Borders “Worldwide press freedom index”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders#Worldwide_press_freedom_index
Estonia is ranked 6th free media worldwide. Where is russian media? Ranked 147 out of 168 countries. Just a tad better ranking than Belorussia, the last dictatorship in Europe.
How about economic freedom?
In the Heritage Foundations “Index of Economic Freedom” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_economic_freedom#Index_of_Economic_Freedom_2
Estonia is ranked 7th Free Economy of the World, whereas Russia is 122th position out of 157 countries, preceeded even by still communistic China and many African countries.
How about corruption?
In the Transparency International’s “Corruption Perceptions Index” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Index#Alphabetical_listing
Estonia is ranked 24th least corrupt out of 163. Where is Russia? It is 121st, just on the par with many African countries.
Make your own conclusions about the level of democracy in the countries and the reliability of the messages spread to the public by the press.
Now, I wonder where the media could be more influenced by government - in Estonia or in Russia?
In the Reporters Without Borders “Worldwide press freedom index”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders#Worldwide_press_freedom_index
Estonia is ranked 6th free media worldwide. Where is russian media? Ranked 147 out of 168 countries. Just a tad better ranking than Belorussia, the last dictatorship in Europe.
How about economic freedom?
In the Heritage Foundations “Index of Economic Freedom” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_economic_freedom#Index_of_Economic_Freedom_2
Estonia is ranked 7th Free Economy of the World, whereas Russia is 122th position out of 157 countries, preceeded even by still communistic China and many African countries.
How about corruption?
In the Transparency International’s “Corruption Perceptions Index” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Index#Alphabetical_listing
Estonia is ranked 24th least corrupt out of 163. Where is Russia? It is 121st, just on the par with many African countries.
Make your own conclusions about the level of democracy in these countries and the reliability of the messages spread to the public by the press.
I forgot to tell you two more things.
Did you really thought that estonians went to german army voluntarily or to russian red army?! Ofcourse not, they were forced to.
I have heard a story about a young boy, who was forced to go to the german army, but the older men started to think that it is not a right thing to bring such an inocent and young boy to the battlefield. So they pushed him out of the truck in a curve. Then the boy ran away and some nice ladies gave him some of their clothes,so he could hide himself and go home. So he walked home about 200 kilometres until he reached home.
And did you know that russian army took estonians to Siberia in animal carriages and left them to die?! And gave their homes to russian people, so when some of the estonians, who had survived this “trip” and the long prisonment in Siberia, couldn’t go back to home?!
Hi baby
Estonian goverment are gravediggers. That monument honors people, who gave their life in battle with nazism. Estonia sucks. SLAVA ROSSII!!!
How about Himki?
Difference in how it is doing. If you cant see difference you are simply stupidest.
Here`s a history lesson for you commies out there.
http://www.hot.ee/evlliit/okup_2.htm
Where the hell did you take the idea that estonians want to destroy the bronze soldier or the fallen ones. The third picture is just a picture tuning. The monument is NOT destroyed it’s just taken to a military cementary where it really belongs and the fallen ones are also taken to cementary to bury them like normal people(not in the center of a capital city where youngsters like to drink and hang out).
Just read those comments and you understand that this what is shown on russian media is just to make the russians more angry . It’s not the complete story, they only show those videos and pictures the want but just take a look at the following link at the end of may comment.
http://www.digg.com/world_news/Estonia_dismantles_Soviet_memorial
Great pictures! This kind of stuff happens all the time in America.
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
outlaw photography
filming state violence
is a crime against the state
.
Huh? Are you using a bad translator or do you not know how to make a point?
all is well under the milky way tonight
Look at these pictures! here you can see drunk joungsters vandalizing. Most of them russians, who are being blinded with russian media and can’t see the truth!
http://www.postimees.ee/galerii/index.php?picture=18697&cache=1&prev=1&picoffset=0&galoffset=0&gallerydate=#pos
http://tuvasta.politsei.ee/0426_01.html
Is this normal?!?! :/
Do not discriminate the national minority: give them citizenship, equal rights to get a job, equal rights to save their language, culture and nationality, as all the normal Europe does; express respect to their dead relatives. Do not provoke the chaos and aggression, do not split your own country! And then there will not be such accidents.
That is a very good point! Estonian authorities do a big mistake when they refuse to give russians who were born in the country Estonian citizenships. How can these people develope a feeling of belonging to Estonia, a national feeling, if all they get is an Alien passport? These russians will always feel like “outsiders”, thanks to the stupidity of the Estonian politicians.
anna, in order for them to feel free to live in estonia, they HAVE to OBEY to SOME RULES, like, ACTUALLY SPEAKING the LANGUAGE. if the speak the language, they have the equal rights to get a job. to save their language????? who the hell is stopping them?
the problem is they do not want the citizenship anyway, the reasons have been discussed many times in this thread.
they want to live in russia, but with EU privileges.
i’d say it’s a true point indeed.
they want estonia to be a part of russia, it seems like that.
but, they know /or well, maybe they dont’t/ the way their natives live in russia, and therefore, they tought: oh let’s see, well, I want to live better than my uncle in novosibirsk, I’ll go to estonia. I won’t apply for a citizenship, but I expect all the pros since i’m from the EX-soviet union. you know, the master’s kind of thing.
It probably is normal. Russia has a large population of gopnics who would rather get drunk and vandalize than do something productive.
I’d like to say sth about these 3 aspects.
2. Russians can’t get work because of Latvian / Estonian government. And they are driven into poverty.
3. Russians can’t study on their language.
4. Russians were driven into poverty. 95% officials in Estonia and Latvia are Estonians and Latvians while they are about 60% of all population. Russians are forbidden to work in the official structures.
—
Tell me please, in which country you can get a good job, when you don’t speak it’s language.
And that’s not true, that russians can’t study in their language in Estonia. In schools you can study in russian,but it’s good to know the offial language of the country too. And because the estonian government enabled schools to give education in russian,caused that a large number of russian don’t speak estonian. But that’s not the only reason. Russians DON’T WANT to study estonian. So they are causing themselves problems.
Look, after Estonia independenced, it has had rough times. The people were poor and etc, but they didn’t steal! They made themselves marmelade and growd potatoes and cereals.
It is possible to study in your own language in school/university in: Finland(if you are Swedish), Romania (if you are Hungarian), probably many other countries, I am talking only about those that I know for sure. If the percentage of national minority is higher than some certain limit.
I go to university in Tallinn.
Last semester I failed a course. I managed to drag my sorry ass there for the first time sometime mid-semester, and found out I’d signed for the russian-languague version of the course by accident;(
What I meant is - I have no clue about what drugs you’re on, because russian-languague education is available in Estonia on all levels.
Knowledge of estonian is only required for jobs in public administration. Oh, and for citizenship (government pays for your languague classes if you so desire).
If someone hasn’t managed to learn the languague despite being, what, 3rd-generation resident… I’m sorry, can’t feel any sympathy there. Learn it or GTFO.
in every country, the school’s educational system is its own governments decision. why should they learn in russian? can estonians in russia learn in estonia? they can’t, since they are not given chance, the number of estonian lessons in russia is about 1-2 per week, but the number of russian lessons is well…certainly bigger. get the point?
It sounds like the Russians provoked it.
According to the US State Department:
January 22, 2007
COUNTRY DESCRIPTION: Estonia is a stable democracy with a rapidly developing economy. Tourist facilities in Tallinn are comparable to other western European cities, but some amenities may be lacking in rural areas. Some goods and services may not be available outside of major cities. Please read the Department of State Background Notes on Estonia for additional information.
ENTRY/EXIT REQUIREMENTS: A valid passport is required. Tourists and business travelers may stay in Estonia for up to 90 days within a six-month period without a visa. U.S. citizens who wish to work in Estonia or remain longer than 90 days must obtain a visa or residence permit for themselves and any family members who will be living with them in Estonia. For further information concerning entry requirements and residency permits, contact the Estonian Embassy, located at 2131 Massachusetts Ave., N.W., Washington, D.C. 20008, telephone (202) 588-0101, or the Consulate General of Estonia in New York City, telephone (212) 883-0636. See our Foreign Entry Requirements brochure for more information on Estonia and other countries. Visit the Embassy of Estonia web site at http://www.estemb.org for the most current visa information.
See Entry and Exit Requirements for more information pertaining to dual nationality and the prevention of international child abduction. Please refer to our Customs Information to learn more about customs regulations.
SAFETY AND SECURITY: Civil unrest is not a problem in Estonia, and there have been no incidents of terrorism directed toward American interests. Large public gatherings and demonstrations may occur on occasion, caused mainly by domestic political issues.
During periods of darkness, reflectors must be worn by pedestrians. Violators of this law may be subject to a fine of up to 600 EEK ($50.00). Reflectors are inexpensive and are available at most supermarkets and many smaller shops. To meet legal requirements, the reflector’s packaging must include a reference to European safety standard EN13356.
For the latest security information, Americans traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department’s Internet web site where the current Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, Travel Warnings and Public Announcements can be found. Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.
Up-to-date information on safety and security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the U.S., or for callers outside the U.S. and Canada, a regular toll-line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).
The Department of State urges American citizens to take responsibility for their own personal security while traveling overseas. For general information about appropriate measures travelers can take to protect themselves in an overseas environment, see the Department of State’s pamphlet A Safe Trip Abroad.
CRIME: Estonia is a relatively safe country, although crime in Tallinn’s “Old Town” is an ongoing concern, particularly during the summer tourist season. Travelers should exercise the same precautions with regard to their personal safety and belongings they would take in major U.S. cities. The most common crimes encountered by foreign tourists are purse snatching, pick-pocketing, and mugging. Tourists are often targeted by individuals and small groups of thieves working together. In public places such as the Town Hall Square (“Raekoja Plats”) airport, train stations, and the Central Market, one must exercise special care in safeguarding valuables against purse-snatchers and pickpockets. Valuables should never be left unattended in vehicles and car doors should be kept locked at all times. Some violent crime does occur, mainly at night and often in proximity to nightlife areas. Car theft and break-ins also continue to be a problem in Tallinn.
Police capabilities in Estonia are improving, but still suffer from lack of equipment, training, personnel and resources. Many police officers speak only very limited English. Credit card fraud is an ongoing concern, as is internet-based financial fraud and “internet dating” fraud. Travelers should take prudent precautions to safeguard their credit cards and report any suspected unauthorized transaction to the credit card company immediately. Racially motivated verbal harassment and, on occasion, physical assault of Americans and other nationals of non-Caucasian ethnicity has occurred. If an incident occurs, it should be reported to the police and to the Embassy.
INFORMATION FOR VICTIMS OF CRIME: The loss or theft of a U.S. passport abroad should be reported immediately to the local police and the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate. If you are the victim of a crime while overseas, in addition to reporting to local police, please contact the nearest U.S. Embassy or Consulate for assistance. The Embassy/Consulate staff can, for example, assist you to find appropriate medical care, contact family members or friends and explain how funds could be transferred. Although the investigation and prosecution of the crime is solely the responsibility of local authorities, consular officers can help you to understand the local criminal justice process and to find an attorney if needed.
See our information on Victims of Crime.
MEDICAL FACILITIES AND HEALTH INFORMATION: The quality of medical care in Estonia continues to improve but still falls short of Western standards. Estonia has many highly trained medical professionals, but hospitals and clinics still suffer from a lack of equipment and resources. Elderly travelers and those with health problems may be at increased risk. Visitors to forest areas in warm weather should also guard against tick-borne encephalitis.
Information on vaccinations and other health precautions, such as safe food and water precautions and insect bite protection, may be obtained from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s hotline for international travelers at 1-877-FYI-TRIP (1-877-394-8747) or via the CDC’s Internet site at http://www.cdc.gov/travel. For information about outbreaks of infectious diseases abroad consult the World Health Organization’s (WHO) website at http://www.who.int/en. Further health information for travelers is available at http://www.who.int/ith.
MEDICAL INSURANCE: The Department of State strongly urges Americans to consult with their medical insurance company prior to traveling abroad to confirm whether their policy applies overseas and whether it will cover emergency expenses such as a medical evacuation. Please see our information on medical insurance overseas.
Ha ha.. Texas1, come on be serious now. What other analisis can you sxpect from US State Department?? LOL
You didn’t give me a very objective source of information in relation to this case, did you???
That’s typical of him, relying on information hand fed to him by his government.
Sounds like Russia is more of a fascist country than Estonia. According to the US State Department:
COUNTRY DESCRIPTION: Estonia is a stable democracy with a rapidly developing economy.
SAFETY AND SECURITY: Civil unrest is not a problem in Estonia, and there have been no incidents of terrorism directed toward American interests. Large public gatherings and demonstrations may occur on occasion, caused mainly by domestic political issues.
During periods of darkness, reflectors must be worn by pedestrians. Violators of this law may be subject to a fine of up to 600 EEK ($50.00). Reflectors are inexpensive and are available at most supermarkets and many smaller shops. To meet legal requirements, the reflector’s packaging must include a reference to European safety standard EN13356.
I don’t want to read all the comments and sorry if someone already told it, but the soldier is totally removed. There are no boots or stones and this is WRONG picture. Don’t you see, it’s PHOTOSHOP :S!!!
Fuck your US department morons you sheep fucker idiot
Screw the ass backward fascist government of Russia.
Why is the Russian govenment fascist?? Or are you back to the insults again because you’ve got nothing intelligent to say??
Boris, Weren`t you the one who said, I quote, “Fuck you! This guy is gay, and he sucks my cock!!”? Didn`t have anything intelligent left to say? You hypocrite
I like this Kala. I hope all of these Estonians stick around for a long time.
actually I wanted to ask the foreigners (non-russians) who visit this site.
how many of you actually believe the news in russian mass media and how it’s served?
The world knows that the news in Russia is controlled by the government and that the facts get grossly distorted. The weird thing is that even though Russians have access to the Internet, they still believe in the propaganda the Russian government produces.
The U.S produces just as much propoganda and controls media even more, it’s just not as blatant so that people like you can believe they live in a real democracy. You are a puppet of the illuminati just like everyone else. It’s funny that you have access to the internet but still go to the Departement of State to get your facts on Estonia.
You are all just idiots. grow up already and learn to live together you morons.
It’s very sad that dirty politicians enlarges their ratings using such dirty methods. They use us all.
argh, you motherfuckers dunno shit about anything! here, in this arcticle, everything (well, not exatctly EVERYthing) is different. upsidedown! its like we, estonians are bad and it’s all our fault! but hey, look what russians are doing!
at first, we were under russian occupation for 300 years!!!!!
second they built NSVL where we were for 50 years!!!! they have always wanted from our country as much as they can get it with violence and not just ours, you know. thanks to one good perseon who is dead for now, boriss jeltsin, the NSVL is dead now! but the russians still think they can do everything in estonia. NO MOTHERFUCKERS, NO!
look, tehy live in estonia. we have gave them a chance to live here legally. they have a chance to study in russian schools, work, money blabla* and they can’t even say hello in estonian properly! you think its normal? okay, there are americans who can’t speak estonian! fine, happy birthday! but the thing is that THeY SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THIS!! but russians - thay always hate estonians and fight with them even tough estonias have given them chance to be in this country as russian. AND VITH VIOLENCE !!!!! so you think its fair? well, think again, motherfucker!
I just laugh at people who are blaming the police for using excessive force.
They are vandals who are destroying public property, throwing molotov-coctails at people in restaurants, etc.
After all that they`ve done, they cry about police brutality. Damn cavemen these russians are.
Police is nothing, it is just an instrument in the hands of the goverment. And estonian goverment is the one to blame. If the national minority would be treated there as Estonia was their motherland, not made them social outcasts, then they would behave differently.
Russians have to possibility to go to Russian schools, work, go to Universities, even take the tests in Russian at Estonian speaking Universities. So don`t talk that “discrimination” bs you hear on Russian news. These soviets have always thought themselves to be better than us, and now, when we have straightened our backs, you see what they do.
This is the knind of shit that makes us hate the russians.
Yes, I do have alot russian friends, but they ain`t soviet, brainwashed dipshits like the majority here.
but IT IS not your motherland?!
IF YOU WANT YOUR MOTHERLAND; GO TO RUSSIA!
Russians lived on their land included into Estonia in 1918 at least 300 years. Are they natives? Of course! Are they occupiers? No! Why Russians as natives should leave their native land included in modern Estonia?
Estonia in modern borders appeared after Bolshevik revolution, when Russian land with Russian population were voluntary included into Estonia. If Estonians want have nothing with Bolsheviks and Russians, then they should return Russian lands that were included into Estonia by Bolsheviks.
Fennica, actually i don’t see a reason to talk with you. You portrait Russians and Russia in only one way - as evil. Your opinion is based on prejudice, you don’t accept facts. so the result of the discussion for you will be the same.
Russians don’t have to leave their native land. If Estonians want Russians to leave - they should return Russian lands that were included into Estonia by Bolsheviks.
umm, estonians had been living here before them, may I remind You? like someone already said, the first settlement in estonia is dated back to 10000 years.
secondly, russians are a group in slavic people. estonians belong with finns. thus they’re also calling the languages the way they do it, slavic and finno-ugric. if You can’t accept the facts then it is not our problem, now is it? secondly, if YOU don’t like the way things are (and if You happen to be a russian federation citizen, not speaking estonian etc etc) then I suggest moving, since You obviously don’t want to be here.
The good news is, that there is a big hope, that all the vandals are sending out from country. This is good, we do not need people like that (NB! I am not againts russians, I have friend who are russians and who love estonia).
It is impossible to send out from country those who were born and spent all their life there. This is in conradiction with international norms. Where are you going to send them? To the moon?
Untrue.
About a third of local ethnic russians have Russian citizenship. Revoking their residence permits and following deportation for those accused of serious crimes _is_ a viable option. That, coupled with a decade-long block to entering EU gives a quite formidable combination. This can’t be applied to those without citizenshipt, though.
This is partly a reason _why_ so many ethnic russians aren’t picking up Russian citizenships here (quite apart from their unwillingness to apply for Estonian one). Strictly speaking, status as a ‘legal resident’ of EU member country, citizen or not, is highly preferable over Russian citizenship, for the reason mentioned above and due to them not being stupid - the few who truly believe they’d be better off in Russia have left already.
Girls shouldn’t try to work with logic, they lack the brain capacity.
One third of 30% of russians don’t have citizenship in Estonia — well, it still means that about 20% of population do not have. That means, that at least every fifth person in the country is “enemy”, “occupant”, “bad guy”, does not have a right to vote - what kind of society you expect to be in Estonia? While he/she lived in Estonia all the life and is not guilty about the latest history. Why should they apply for Russian citizenship, if they never lived there?!
but if they want to have a citizenship, they have to speak the language, accept the rules etc. and if they don’t have the citizenship, then it can be said that his/hers parents didn’t want the citizenship of estonia too.
Babe, don’t increase your numbers as you go. About 15% of population don’t have Estonian citizenship, and only 8% don’t have none. They _have_ the right to vote in local elections (due to residency) in accordance with EU laws, enjoy full breadth of education system in russian languague, and are covered by national health care.
They don’t _have_ to apply for Russian citizenship, they’re very welcome to apply for Estonian one. For the reasons I wrote above, they often don’t want to.
Being born here and never having been to Russia doesn’t keep them from flying russian & soviet flags and chanting ‘rossiya, rossiya’ at every opportunity, now does it? Not to mention the occasional tricolore-burning to demonstrate their loyalty to, uhm, anywhere but here.
If he/she has lived here all his/her life and doesn’t speak enough local languague to apply for citizenship… such unbelievable learning difficulties, who’d want to naturalize functional imbeciles, anyway?
If they don’t want Russian citizenship they should quit calling themselves Russian and live as Estonian.
The moon is not a bad idea for the hooligans. But, I remember Putin talking about attracting ethnic Russians to return to the motherland due to the demographic problems in Russia. It makes me think that Russians who are living in the Baltics could immigrate to Russia if they wanted to. You can’t really critisize Estonia and Latvia for trying to create conditions to encourage Russians to want to leave. The looting and hooliganism is another matter. In my opinion it was instigated by the hysterical nature of reporting in the Russian media of the simple relocation of a monument. Unfortunately, this is typical Russian behavior.
Who are you to decide where people should live and where they should migrate? Stalin maybe? Many of those Russians in Estonia lived there all their life and were born there-where should they go and why?
yes, they were born here, but still, they refuse to accept the terms in order to become citizens. and they call out russia, russia! , is that what we should consider as a person who wants to become estonian citizen?
actually, people who are born in estonia, but who’s parents are both russian citizens are born as russian citizens.
things aren’t the way they are in ireland, not everybody who is born here, will be given citizenship.
Anna, I heard that like 40 or smth people are gonna send out. So, and they are all russians which means that they are going back to russia where they belong and where they unfortunally are treated like heroes after all they’ve done in estonia.
Probably they are Russian citizens or tourists, but you present your “news” as a kind of sensation. And that quarter of population that is ethnic russians will stay in Estonia.
let’s calm down now.
I would also like to point out some facts that the Russian media probably doesn’t talk about.
First - the Estonian official point of view is not what is written here. The Estonian official point of view is that it’s a monument to the Soviet Union. Yes, they drove fascists away from here and that’s good, but the Soviets deportated about 40 000 innocent people to Siberia, destroyed our state (and by the way, also hundreds of Estonian monuments. Nobody had the right to protest then). It was all done by the soldiers just like the one in the statue.
Secondly - the statue will be rebuilt in a few days in a cemetary. Isn’t it logical that graves should be there? And the Soviets never restored the statues they demolished.
Thirdly - the person killed in Tallinn was not killed by police. He was wounded by knife, probably by another protester. And anyway, what happened in Tallinn was mostly just breaking windows, robbing shops (expensive clothes, alcohol, tobacco etc.) and such thing doesn’t have to do much with politics. Some criminals just saw a possibility to rob and vandalize.
Fourthly - we’re not fascists. If we’re agains the USSR, it doesn’t make us fascists, otherwise you should call like that also the USA during the Cold War, for excemple
and I would also like to say that I have nothing against Russians in general, neither do my friends. Peace!
for the Russians: bud’te spokojny, monument budet na kladbishche uzhe zavtra ili poslezavtra. Mesto etogo nebyla v centre, potomu chto Estonija sama ne hotela v SSSR, my tozhe ne hoteli fashistkuju Germaniju. My ne fashisty i ne sovety, my estoncy. Ne verite tol’ko svoju oficialnuju mediju
i u nas net nechego protiv russkogo naroda.
Tauno, Estonia
адин хуй каментав нарезали дахуя
has anybody noticed that the moment they removed alcohol, the riots lessened?
LOL! So in other words, if you want to stop a Russian riot offer free alcohol across town. Brilliant!
Hey, guys! You are SO smart it takes my breath away!!! Such useful, witty remarks! Such sparkling humour! Keep it up and you’ll go down in History!!!
You know why there are so MANY people on this blog writing insults like “fuck the USA”? Because they are fed up with trying to make you look at things from a different, deeper,more subtle point of view! Personally, I am fed up telling people “no, the problem with Russia is not that simple”; “yes,the media DO give a prejudiced point of view on Russia”; “perhaps, you should have some critical point of view on the way the estonian government oranised the whole thing.” I am really tired: i’ll get down to your level: FUCK THE US, FUCK THE ESTONIAN GOVERNMENT, FUCK THE AUTHOR OF THIS BLOG AND ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE SHIT HERE!
if you were a pretty girl, then FUCK ME.
I’ll second that.
Sexist pigs!!
Mind you, what else can one expect form uncivilised rednecks!!
Thank you so much for defending my девичья честь, Boris! lol No way I’d sacrify it to an American moron, anyway!
some indeed prefer russian morons
And, dear hck, dear texas1,
I am not a pretty girl, I am an ugly guy called G.W.Bush and I already fuck you every day of your marvellous American life. Lucky you!
I knew there was something rotten about her.
Hey Dubya, shouldn’t you be working instead of reading propaganda?
Fuck USA mather fuckers destroy usa .
i was just answering to your question. they are not going to the moon doh.
This is how protecting the monument by the “freedom fighters” happened most of the time:
http://tuvasta.politsei.ee/
This is the police site to get names of guys who stole and broke shops. And it’s also a good site for all the employers, to check if some of they have made some bad employment choices. Or for parents to check if their kids should get some good slap.
Poor “protecters”, they were in such a hurry to grab free alcohol so NOT ONE of them noticed how big truck came and took the statue away. Tell me, you freedom fighters, how this could happen? I can tell you: it was the measure of your honour of IIWW - there was none of it, only fool youngsters who just wanted some fun and free alcohol.
Eh, vy, osvoboditeli
Come visit Tartu for couple of days and you’ll see that there’s absolutely no nazism is Estonia.
Russians lived on their land included into Estonia in 1918 at least 300 years. Are they natives? Of course! Are they occupiers? No! Why Russians as natives should leave their native land included in modern Estonia?
Estonia in modern borders appeared after Bolshevik revolution, when Russian land with Russian population were voluntary included into Estonia. If Estonians want have nothing with Bolsheviks and Russians, then they should return Russian lands that were included into Estonia by Bolsheviks.
Russians don’t have to leave their native land. If Estonians want Russians to leave - they should return Russian lands that were included into Estonia by Bolsheviks.
Good point Borah!!
Where did it say we want to drive out native russians? Russian news?
Eejit, russians who lived within our borders - and their descendants - have as clear a claim at Estonian citizenship as estonians, no questions asked. Coincidentially, estonians who don’t meet this simple requirement have to go through the naturalization process as well (my grandmother’s estonian but was born in Ukraine, so she had to take the dreaded languague test for her citizenship).
Please point out whish areas, preferrably russian-populated, were falsely claimed by Estonia at first independence. Remember that russians made up 8% of our population, with vast majority living in larger cities.
O ye of little brains.
actually it’s a little bit more complicated with the Russian community in Estonia. There actually is a small native Russian community here, the “old-believers” (starovercy), who fled to Estonia during the rule of Peter I (they were discriminated in Russia because they didn’t accept some religious reforms). These Russians have kept their language, religion etc. through centuries, but they have always supported Estonians.
Most of the Russians who live in Estonia nowadays moved here during the Soviet period. This community is relatively very new, numerous and immigrated during a short period, that’s why many of these people still mentally live in Russia. As a prove I can say that in 1932, before the Soviet occupation, Russians made up 8,2% of the Estonian population, in 1998 they were 28,1%.
As for the argument that “Russia took back their territory”, it’s historically not true. Czarist Russia invaded Estonia from Sweden in 1710, but Estonians have always been in majority here. Estonia gained its independence in 1918 and it was NOT a present from Lenin, Estonia had to go through a hard war, the Estonian Liberty War agaist Soviet Russia in 1918-1920. In the Soviet time that war was “forbidden history”, so the monuments for the soldiers fallen there were systematically destroyed, Russia has never said even sorry for that.
so much about the history then. But as for the third picure in this post, the missing broze soldier, I can say for sure that it’s a fake because the site was covered by a tent before removing the statue and is still covered. So there has been not even a hypothetical possibility to take such a picture.
and the blames in anti-Semitism are not true either. A few years ago Russia claimed that there was some anti-Semitism in Estonia and Latvia, probably you heard this through the Russian media, but the chief of the Estonian Jewish Community, Ms. Cilja Laud answered that they’re glad Russia worries about them, but fortunately they have had no problems here and the society is very tolerant. Similar answer came also from the Latvian Jewish Community. I think the Russian media never talked about that.
and finally - just a few days ago the Azerbaijan Community in Estonia declared that Estonia is very tolerant towards the minorities. These are the facts.
Thanks for showing how twisted Russian views on history are.
What is the most interesting is that none of European politicians said a word about the events (except from the american marionettes from Baltic), and most of the news canals tried to avoid writing about these events. This shows, how much all the world and especially western politicians are afraid of USA.
Simple, reason, little girl - it’s No Big Deal. Just because your beloved leaders froth at their mouths going on and on about it doesn’t mean it’s actually newsworthy.
well, I have seen some news about it when searching from the Internet. I found an article in New York Times Online and much more in BBC, they also have interesting discussions there.
As for the politicians, Javier Solana has supported Estonia from the EU side. There has also been support you mentioned from Latvia and Lithuania, of course. As far as I know, the German chancellor Angela Merkel has called both sides to remain reasonable. Poland, Sweden and Finland have declared that this problem is an internal affair of Estonia and doesn’t concern other countries (ironical, that Putin has recently said that other countries are trying to influence the Russian internal affairs. Don’t you think that Russia should show an excemple then?
anyway, I also agree that in the scale of the world or even Europe it’s nothing so important. What else should the world leaders say?
If 1/100 of this deal would have happened in Russia or Belorussia, your beloved leaders would have probably “froth at their mouths going on and on about it”, no doubt.
have they ever?
hell, we could ban all russian goods, in theory. we wouldn’t lose much. only that we are grown-ups, not babies in a sandbox, so we won’t.
Himki.
Case closed.
It was televised in the UK. Politicians in the US haven’t said anything about it. It happened over the weekend. What do you expect, a major news conference during primetime television? Be serious.
i wasted an hour of my time reading this garbage. ebnutai mudaki.
Some of you don’t even know history nor the word occupation.
Shame on Mart Laar for overwriting the history!
And shame on Ansip too. How could he do such thing just before 9 May? I’m pretty sure there would be no such riot if he would remove it after the datum.
And you punks can’t say, that russians who wrecked the streets should go back to russia or else. First of all, one third of the people who were slamming there, were ESTONIANS.
And second, it’s those russian’s country and hometown too. They were born here, so you can’t say they wrecked foreign country, it’s THEIR too.
I agree, that this is an act of vandalism, but hey, Ansip got what he wanted, right ?
Stupid estonian teenagers, who know nothin about history.
I’m not saying, that I’m the smartest in current situation, this was my opinion.
ANSIP 4MO.!!!
Tanya, you know what - we have absolutely nothing against Russian. For example quite a few of my collegues are Russians and they are really cool and intelligent people, I like working with them.
But the people who were rioting on the streets - they were just drunken idiots, yelling stuff like “USSR forever” and “Rossija-Rossija”. To them I have nothing else to say than if you want your Rossija so bad, then please, move back there. And unfortunately yes, there were also some drunken Estonians on streets that day. And you know what - they will all get punished equally. It doesn’t matter to us if you are Estonian or Russian, if you break the law you WILL accept the consequences.
And for the history part - who exactly is trying to rewrite the history here? Just search the internet or history books for some actual historical events. For example the Katyn massacre, or Holodomor before the Second World-war. Or any other of the hundreds of war crimes accomplished by your army.
there is no re-written history, just the amount which was “forgotten” to be taught at soviet time, not to mention the warped perspectives…
in my 10th grade history book nothing happened between 1918 and 1939, and suddenly just like that *snap* a commie “revolution” in 1940.
no word on Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact either.
Идите все на хуй заебали идиоты сука
I have allways wondered why russians hate estonians and other baltics so much. But I guess they are simply jealous: Baltics = EU, democracy, freedom to travel, etc. Russia = Putin. Which one would you choose?
Putin.
Baltics.
In Estonia and Lithuania both presidents have american citizenship, and in Lithuania the prime minister is, and in Latvia the president has canadian one. Doesn’t it mean something, how do you think?
sorry, in Lithuania only the president, I don’t know about the prime minister
Putin had rank of colonel in KGB, that certanly means something.
At least in his own country… Are Baltic countries really that independent?…
And Lithuanian president was fighting in WWII on the Nazi side in 1944 in Tevynes Apsaugos Rinktine, do you know that?
have you got specifically anything against people who have learned in US and Canada or it’s just common jealousy?
Me???
I love everyone and dream about peace in all the world!
My point was just that there is no particular dislike between Russians and Baltic countries, but rather between Russia and their… supervizor
heh, how come the russians don’t pick on the “supervisor” then instead of attacking the much weaker neighbours:)
Who is _attacking_ the weaker neighbours?
Nobody would care about them if they would not have discriminated people with Russian nationality.
well according to international law there is no discrimination, so you’ll have to shed your tears in strasbourg court, of course, that’s in case they aren’t plotting another conspiratorial conspiracy against russia.
american citizenship??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
sorry, BUT YOU CANNOT STEP UP AS A FUTURE PRESIDENT IN ESTONIA UNLESS YOU HAVE A ESTONIAN CITIZENSHIP!
Baltics
Oh, please! Awfully propagandist site!
Estonia is an independent country and Russia is not to meddle with its internal affairs as long as everything is done within international laws and human rights. The country will relocate the statue because it is tired of Russia using it in its ongoing propaganda against a small defenseless nation. I suggest you turn your eyes to what President Putin is doing to statues like this in Russia. I think you should start fighting for these at first! Keep in mind these things:
1. the statue is in perfect order, it was just taken down and will be put up again in a cemetary (a better place for a memorial than a bus stop) on the 8th of May. Everyone is free to go and commemoate the soldiers there!
2. The statue never looked the way you show in the photo! Nobody took it down and left the poor guys boots! Stop giving false information and comparing with god knows what!
3. How do the acts of vandalism of the ‘protestors’ of the monument honour the memory of the fallen in any way? Is rioting, smashing windows (of flats, shops, libraries, schools and churches (!!!) alike!) worthy of those who died in World War II? Aren’t they capable of behaving in a civilized manner?!
4. The only one person who died was a rioter that was killed by other Russian rioters!
5. The police treated the vandals as they would be treated in any other civilized country - they were arrested and criminal charges were pressed against some of them (if you steal, you are punished - quite logical!) Anyone disturbing peace (Estonians and Russians alike) were treated this way.
6. The facts of history are clear. Yes, Soviet Union fought against Nazi Germany and a very good thing they did. But doing this Russia did NOT liberate Estonia. Why? Because Estonians NEVER wanted to be ‘liberated’ by the Russians. Because the occupants stayed for 50 years, sent people to Siberia, destroyed their homes and culture, made them speak Russian against their will. Had they been liberators they would have gone back home and left Estonia for Estonians. The Germans had, in fact, already left when Soviet Army invaded Estonia and Estonians had managed to declare a republic in the mean time already. Or did your precious history books not mention this tiny fact? It’s Russia who bends the history in whichever way is more convenient to it!
7. By the way, the Soviet soldiers that died are not to blame, they just did their duty. Their remains and the memorial are treated with respect. The peaceful Russian people living in Estonia are not to blame. They just want to get on with their daily lives and they do. Alongside Estonians and everything is fine. If only Russia itself would stop it ludicrous propaganda aimed at some hotheaded Russians living in Estonia.
8. Estonian language is no more difficult to learn than any other language. Why is that an American who comes to live in Estonia is capable of speaking some of the language in a couple of months and some Russians who have lived in the country for decades don’t even know how to say ‘hello’ in Estonian?”! Why is it that Estonians were obligated to learn Russian and now some Russians can’t learn some elementary Estonian? It’s either they are too stupid and not capable of doing so (which I doubt) or they just don’t respect Estonia at all!
9. If you don’t allow/erase my post, you are not democratic, remember that, because you can’t handle the other side’s opinion!
Dear Liisa,
I perfectly agree about all your comments. The only thing I am continuing asking myself is: Is there nothing else more important to think for a just newly elected prime minister and government than to move a statue ??? why few days after being elected to provoke such a mess ??? why just elected to be in the situation of almost breaking the diplomatic releations with Russia ??? well let me say that you had and have much better politicians than this ones. One of the duties of a prime minister is to keep its country in peace and well organized and be capable to evaluate all the possible consequences of an act before to do it (sometimes for the goodwill you have to find a compromise). This guy politically speaking is not capable AT ALL.
well, you see steve, very many estonians voted for ansip because HE promised to move the statue, by doing it, he also completed his promise.
This is not true. Most of the people voted him because his intention of not changing the actual fiscal system with 0% income tax (while Savisar wanted to introduce the payment of income tax as in the other European countries) and not because of a statue…I live in Estonia and I try to be in formed.
yes, because that was his other promise.
but you can’t ignore the fact that he did say /before elections/ that they are going to move the statue, and if they hadn’t done it, i think that the riots would’ve been even more catastrophic.
Oh, sorry, forgot.
It seems to me that mostly people are just shouting the slogans the Russian propaganda machine has fed for them over and over again! The Russians are working and living in Estonia like everyone else. Many job adveritisements require the knowledge of both languages, Estonian and Russian. The reason why perhaps some people haven’t got a good job is because they have not bothered to learn Estonian, which in many jobs is essential as a means of communication (though the government gives them every opportunity to do so for free!!!). I mean, we cannot make a law that although over 70% of people are ethnic Estonians we’ll hire a Russian and all the Estonians will then speak Russian to that person. Stupid, isn’t it?! So I’ve got news for you - even if Estonia had two official languages, the Russians here would still have to learn Estonian! There ARE Russian-speaking schools in Estonia, so the Russians CAN get education in their own language. I should know very well, I work in one! And I went to school together with some local Russians and to university with many more. So yes, they CAN get an education if they want to. And about citizenship - did you know that there are actually many people who choose to live in Estonia and not have Estonian but Russian citizenship? I guess Estonian one is just no good for them, yet they live here (why then, I wonder).
You and Kala are awesome! Please stick around. to help deprogram all of the brainwashed Russians.
lie
Tanya
Thanks you Tanya for your oppinion. You are the most calm and wise in all this topic. I agree with you, with every word. Im against that barbaric marauding in Tallin and those who provoked it.
By the way i think people is a bit overactin about that *propoganda* in russia media. Freedom of writing doesnt allways mean they write true facts, but nobody force tham to write in that way… Ofcourse they are just flaming more anger in russian people, but, o well, those are not propogdndic at all.
PS. I am a russian myself, and learning estonian for my citizenship.
PS. 16 years old
There ARE Russian-speaking schools in Estonia, so the Russians CAN get education in their own language
Well they are soon to be closed\transfered arent they ?
not closed or transferred, but since the number of students has been decreasing they have to unite different russian-language based schools.
Organizers of Tallin’s attack :
http://www.russkie.net/all-video.php?video=221568.avi
This is one good photo edit
, this monument was not removed …just placed on another place!! For more quiet place than inner citys rush.
Dear Russians,
I am a foreigner living in Estonia. I agree on the fact that for the peaceful living between Estonia and Russia it was most probably better to have a longer dialogue and discussion between the two governments in order to find out a less traumatic solution concerning the bronze monument. At the same time I am assisting to the stupid attempt of some people in Russia to transform in a hero that guy which have been killed during the demonstrations. The true is, and every russian in Estonia knows about, that this guy was just one of the many drunk russians partecipating at the demonstration not in order to politically express his opinion but just to go around and break and still things. The biggest problem is that this idiot have been killed by another drunk Russian with a knife…and with this I said all about your so called “hero”.
It is funny how the little estonia has fucked up relations with its major consumer of its exports. Now they will ask from EU to fix their mess… Muuhahahaha!
Please get your facts straight. Less than 10% of Estonian exports go to Russia, allready over 80% of it goes to EU.
And I think EU naturally should show some solidarity to it´s member states.
Lisa! The estonian slut that has enjoyed Nazi’s dick up her ass so much that did not let it go! :-)))))
Eesti, boy oh boy! Your economy worsens day after day. A million of assholes that cannot brace themselves…
Belamoor, thank you for your appreciation.
Somebody, I agree with you on that. It is funny indeed.
I think that Estonia wanted to be in EU because then it would be in somekind of union and they would not be so alone and so involved with Russia and then talk sh*t about it. I think without EU Estonia would be just a sh*tty piece of land.
Russia is a great big country, it has it all. Estonia has nothing.
Estonia is just making fun of all the dead soldiers. I think it makes no difference that they are Russians, such thing is unacceptable!
And btw, the bronze soldier himself was Estonian, the sculptor was Estonian too, as I know, so I don’t see the problem?!
As a matter of fact, I heard Estonia has a lack of police right now too. Maybe Russia can bring its troops for some help, eh ?
What also irritates me, that lots of Estonian teenagers say that they are patriots. I don’t see any patriotism in saying “RUSSIANS BACK TO RUSSIA” crap everywhere and talking sh*t about Russians.
And there are no pure Estonians anyway.Everyone is mixed somehow.
I also see no democracy in Estonia. Is there any? Can somebody please explain it to me?
“Russia is a great big country, it has all. Estonia has nothing.”
Move, then.
“As a matter of fact, I heard Estonia has a lack of police right now too. Maybe Russia can bring its troops for some help, eh ?”
During past 2 days, 1500 new assistant policement have been registered, and are in training.
If you refer to the “350 ethnic russian policemen have left estonian police” rumor, that’s false. Police is police first, nationality doesn’t enter the equation. Several of the policemen wounded in riots were of russian descent.
Estonia wanted to get into EU becouse it was useful for us economically. Russia is a great big country? True. It has all? Also true, you have poverty more than any other country besides myabe Somalia… Only the bigger cities may have some nice stuff, all the smaller ones and even suburbs of the bigger ones look really bad.
I think it would be making fun of the soldies if we would have left them stay buried under a frigging bus station, where ethnic russians (mostly people who were in kindergarten when the soviet union collapsed) come “celebrate” (read drink vodka and disturb everyone around the place) in may and every other soviet holiday. Now they will be buried to a proper cemetary. I only blame our government for not doing it earlier.
And looks like the riots have stopped… For now… But I’m sure that Russia would never give out troops to help us, mostly becouse that would mean they accept the fact that the Russian “demonstrators” were nothing but violent thieves.
I agree there are lots of “teenage patriots” in Estonia, who actually don’t know much more than you’r “teenage patriots”. What REALLY pisses me off tho, is the fact that there were lots of Russian-speaking “patriots” among the rioters who were shouting “Rossija, Rossija” and other anti-Estonian slogans. If you think that is normal, then I got nothing to say. “Russians back to Russia” seems fit enough for me. If you don’t like here, then nobody is holding you here. If I’d live in a town with more Russians in it (Kuressaare has very few Russians and they seem to get by fine) I’d be happy to help you pack. There are plenty Russians here who actually LEARN the local language and they get by just fine. It’s the ignorant teenagers who don’t learn the language becouse of who it’s dangerous to walk in some places during the night.
And finally, Estonia has plenty of democracy. We just had free elections to our parliament. But seeing what direction your beloved president is heading to, you might loose the democracy you have left. You know, free journalists and ex spies dead in mysterious ways and so on.
Starshii, gor to Eurostat and see how much estonia provides to EU! It looks like the other way around :-)))
Take a hipe! There is more coming up! Estonia will end up yet-another-wanna-be nation.
BTW, have a look at the French press comments for your government.
I’m not saying that if I walk on the street and see an Estonian, I punch him in his face and scream out FASCIST!, I’m talking about the government mostly.
And I also agree that if you want to live and work in the Estonia, you must learn Estonian. But it’s only in Estonia, you know. Russian and English are mostly needed all over the world and Estonian isn’t.
Estonia is too much “Americanized” if I may say that way.
Darling, if you want to live in estonia as full citizen, learn estonian. If you prefer english - move to UK and apply for naturalization there.
“Russian mostly needed all over the world”:D
That made me roll on the floor, Russian is mostly needed all over the world :D:D.
So apparetly Ulianovich and Shakashvili dreams came true. Or maybe media in Russia, made to the second level of pumping the absurdes into peoples brains.
That was good, thank you for sharing
“Estonia is too much “Americanized” if I may say that way”
Jzs Chrst! Some people just believe in all that bullshit of being surrounded by enemies that want to eat you alive, don’t they?
What is wrong with Estonian government? And didn’t it cross your mind that maybe something is wrong with Russian goverment?
Can’t you see that your president’s recent speach was accusing all of the world but him and his staff about what is going on in his country? They don’t teach that at history lessons in Russia I believe, that this is one of the main tricks used by the authoritarians to get the attention of the people out of subjects which are most important?
So now statue stands again, and what? Now start the riots near the cementary - just need an excuse? let it be that it is not leveled right or that pigeons made shit over it or whateva…
And about discrimination of minorities I can speak about how it looks Poland, in my region we have Kashubian culture and their language has been reckoned as the separate culture even when official language in the country is Polish. Of course noone forbids local authorities to use two languages as official in their local work. And that is what they do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaszuby
Can be done? Can. However this requires A LOT of will of the society to carry on with their culture building in coexisting with the current state law.
Let’s see what a less than one million will suffer worse from? Poverty or cold… Place your bets now please…
in the meanwhile, while there is panic in russian media…
http://rus.delfi.ee/projects/newspictures/article.php?id=15719191
well… ?
in the meanwhile:
http://rus.delfi.ee/projects/newspictures/article.php?id=15719191
russian media PWNT as usual
Tanya, but we are not screaming “Russians back to Russia” or something
I agree that such things are not an expression of patriotism. The point just is that the Russians living here should accept that they live in Estonia now. It’s normal. Also in Russia the minorities must learn the local language, don’t they?
On the other hand, the vandalism that happened in Tallinn was not an expression of Russian patriotism or grief either. I hope you agree with that. Most Russians in Tallinn didn’t support this.
—–
one more thing: TODAY THE MONUMENT WAS RESTORED. It is placed in a military cemetary not far from the bus station of Tallinn, just in the place where they had planned to take it.
http://www.postimees.ee/300407/esileht/siseuudised/258058.php
that’s an article from the main newspaper of Estonia, with pictures of the monument in its new location. In the moment the wall around it is temporarily missing, but it will be restored in the nearer future (it will be ready by June, then also the soldiers will be reburied). In May 8, when the victory of World War 2 will be celebrated in Europe, there will be an event at the statue to commemorate this, also Russian representatives are invited.
What is surprising there? No protestors, no cheering crowds… nobody seemed to be interested that the statue was NOT destroyed. In the cemetary there were mostly journalists. Anyway, the statue is back in a suitable location and everyone is welcome to come and visit it.
A video. Someone to claim it’s not a more dignified location?
http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/article.php?id=15719611
well,accually its a big problem for estonians.
like every time when i see that statue it reminds me how estonia was occupied and many was taken to siberia.
how would you like to live next to statue what tells abaut you loss?besides it isnt russia problem what we do on our own country,and russians,who live in estonia…nobody is holding on you.i’d say i wold be very happy when russians leave.
depends on these Russians. If the vandals leave, it will be only good, but most of the Russians here are moderate. In the vandalism participated only about 1% of the Russians of Tallinn, so it’s wise not to generalise. In the other points I agree with you.
Making business with Estonia you support and finance Nazis.
You should understand, that making business with Estonia or buying anything produced in Estonia or visiting Estonia as a tourist, you actually support and finance a new generation of European Nazis. Please, spend a couple of minutes to read the letter to the end, because your voice of a free human is very important in preventing the revival of Fascism in the Europe.
Estonia, which has recently joined to EU and NATO, officially practices Apartheid policies and does its best to rehabilitate and legalize Fascism, for years. EU, US and other democracies preferred not to pay attention on that till now. However, it doesn’t cancel the fact that Estonia carries out a policy of Ethnic Discrimination against ethnic Russians, who constitute a third part of its population. Most of these people were born in this country or live here for 30-40 years, but they were not even provided citizenship and are treated as second class people. Moreover, Estonia officially glorifies legionaries of Hitler’s SS troops that exterminated Jews in Fascist death camps in Estonia during the Holocaust. Government sets up monuments to these Fascist butchers. They are allowed to march in the downtown of the capital, Tallinn. They are invited to official events; the Estonian President shakes their bloody hands, and calls them heroes of Estonia.
At the same time, Estonian government aggressively fights with any memories of millions of the Soviet soldiers, who paid with their lives to free Europe from the plague of the Fascism and to save dozens millions of Europeans of the death. And democratic countries - first of all EU and US, prefer to dissemble this again. But recently Estonian regime overstepped the limits, which makes it absolutely illegal from the point of view of common human values. On April 26, Estonian authorities have decided to finally erase the memory of the victory of Russian soldiers over the Hitler’s Nazism by destroying the main World War II memorial to a Soviet warrior-rescuer, Bronze Soldier. For those Russians who live in Estonia, demolition of the memorial is not just a removal of some architectonic construction. This is the most painful insult of the memories of their fathers and grandfathers, who died in battle with the Fascism to bring freedom to the Europe.
Thousands of offended Estonian Russians came to a peaceful protest demonstration, demanding from Estonian officials to stop the vandalism. But instead dialogue Estonian authorities sent special police forces to suppress the protest. With no reason they started to fire in the protesters rubber bullets, water cannon and tear-gas, throw flash-bang grenades, and baton women and teenagers. During the massacre the first ethnic Russian was killed, dozens were injured and hundreds were arrested just because of their Russian ethnicity. Those arrested were thrown into in a harbor warehouse as they were livestock, and there they were beat by police within an inch of their life. Just think - in the heart of the Europe an Apartheid regime kills, injures and arrests hundreds people just because of their ethnicity! However, almost all of the European and American media keep hypocritical silence or even worse call this “pacifying gangs of drung vandals”.
This is disgrace! This is shame not only on those European and US governments that support this Nazi state. This is shame on every European and American who keeps silence today. Keeps silence, because somewhere inside he or she is confident that rehabilitation of Fascism, and Apartheid crimes committed against those “dirty Russian” at the heart of the European Union, provide “useful lesson” to Russians and Russia. But maybe you think that this is not your business? Then let me remind you a famous phrase by German priest Martin Niemoller he said about Nazis in 1945: “First they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew…. Then they came for me and by that time there was no one left who can speak up for me”. Today, new European Nazis came for the Russians, and the Europeans keep silence or, better to say, silently approve. Well, you can be sure - this is just the beginning, and some day yours home-grown Nazis, inspired by your silence of the crimes of the Estonian Fascism, will come for you. And there will be no one to speak up for you. Because Russians, once rescued the Europe from the Fascism, will never pay again with millions of their lives for those not speaking up today.
So what can you do? Not too much. But quite enough to stop Nazis. At least don’t finance them. Don’t buy anything produced from Estonia. Don’t do any kind of business with Estonian companies and organizations. Don’t invest in Estonian stocks. Don’t fly to Estonia as a tourist. What else? Maybe, to ask your representative in the House of Representatives, why your government spends your taxes to support Estonian Nazis? Or to forward this letter to your local newspaper and ask them, why they never write about Apartheid in Estonia? Or to call to Estonian embassy in your country, and ask them what is that they think they are doing? Or at least forward this letter to a few friends and colleagues? Your voice CAN prevent revival of Nazism, if you want it
yeah, like anyone except some cafe intellectuals in eastern Soho is going to buy that. well not to mention the comfortly shaped russian public opinion. speaking of which, shouldn’t it read in russian, it would surely attract more of a resonance?
excuse me, do YOU EVEN know what is going on or do did you just take it from somewhere in the web?
first of all, as said millions of times before, the can get a job, a right to vote - everything, once they have learned our language and apply for a citizenship.
by the way, those estonian soldiers who wanted to put up a monument for those who fought on german side during the ww2, well, it didn’t succeed, the monument was takne down by force. so, there’s is justice.
moreover, they were peaceful at first. but some years ago these meetings started to grow, and people strated to DRINK on those graves (which is not especially honouring), when they got drunk they called out slogans and stuff, heck, they even called out slogans when they were sober. they started to wave soviet flags and sing soviet songs, and threatened us that one day, soviet is going to be here! well, for all of those who are out of knowledge: waving a soviet flag (or a nazi one) is strictly forbidden and is considered as a breaking a law. so they were breaking laws. until last week, their protests were ok with us, but when they started to throw rocks at police and and get violent, the police had to so something. by the way, did you know that one female police officer is in hospidal because some russian people broke her legbones????? or how about that police officer who received a stone thrown at her face??? is that peaceful and right?
and don’t tell me about that dmitri guy, he was killed by another rioter.
sorry hck, wrong click, that comment was meant for ’somone who can see’
quote: “Or to call to Estonian embassy in your country, and ask them what is that they think they are doing?”
Yes, that’s the part that I agree with
go to Estonian embassy (if you can stop the “Nashists” blocking it in Moscow) and ask what really happened in Tallinn. It will be educative for you 
estonians are not fascists, russians are… beause they destroyed Tallinn and one feature of facism is vandalism… the picture were are only the boots of bronze soldier is fake, estonian government brought the soldier to the graveyard of Defence League…. the real pictures are here >>
http://pilt.delfi.ee/album/19660/
see the pictures?
i’d say that particular place is much better.
I have followed the change of opinions in this forum for a while now and not even once no russian has made any comments about the Khimki memorial. I talk about the same kind of war memorial, which was not re-located, but destroyeded in Russian city near Moscow to build a new supermarket. I would like to know is russian media reporting about that statue at all? I think not… Anyhow my point is that you should concentrate maybe on your OWN problems before starting judging on others!
well my dear, go to ask to Mr. Kasparov about democracy in your contry first.
You pitiful provokers!
It’s probably already been said hundreds of times hereby but I really have no intention to read through these heaps of hate-comments. Those first photos must be one of the most despising examples of outright-lies I’ve seen! Nobody ever intended to demolish the momument in the first place and as a matter of fact, it’s already been erected in its final resting place - a proper military graveyard.
The people rioting on the streets of Tallinn had NOTHING to do with ideological reasons whatsoever. The majority of them were people who have lived most of their lives in Estonia - and they were just out to vandalise, rampage and rob!
When the monument was finally removed during the early morning hours, no demonstrators were present anymore - they were busy pillaging alcohol shops and thieving jeans from the vandalised Hugo Boss store.
Don’t get me wrong - I don’t want to come off as a racist. I’ve had russian girlfriends, some of my dearest friends in Tallinn are native russians - NOT A SINGLE of them has any pity for those pillaging vandals.
And comparing to the behaviour of OMON and Russian police, the Estonian law authorities were as delicate as possible. I mean, they HAD TO BE - any excessive agressivity would’ve been overexaggerated by Russian media dozens of times. As is exactly the case right now - even if the policemen basically followed the guidebooks letter-by-letter.
http://www.postimees.ee/foto/3/0/9500346371e9d4f0a0_3.jpg
here you go - the statue in a new place, on a proper graveyard.
The person who manipulated the original photo in the top of the page, making it look like the statues was destroyed, should be arrested and sentenced for causing ethnic hate.
..not to mention that the PhotoShop “skills” of this criminal manipulator are pitiful, to say the least.
I can’t believe how immature Russia can be. How difficult is it to understand the point of view of Estonians? Stalin drove away the Germans. All right. But then he went on and occupied Estonia and because of that thousands and thousands of Estonians were killed. So the Bronze soldier is nothing more than a reminder of how Stalin occupied Estonia. It is very understandable why Estonians don’t want it standing in the middle of their capital.
And it also should be mentioned that the people rioting around the city and stealing from Armani stores didn’t care about the monument - hey! free stuff, right?
Estonians can see why the monument is important to Russians. Can’t Russians at least try to see the point of view of Estonians?
Let the monument be in the cemetery - where it belongs.
Yes, we should understand Estonia’s point of view indeed, I agree on that.
Okay, let’s send all the Russians back to Russia. How many Estonians will be left here then? Not much. As I said, there are no pure Estonians anyway.And so what, there will be no Russians, but there will be Negroes or Finnish people or Chinese or whoever. But I know what you’re thinking : as long as there are no Russians, everything is cool, am I right?
See, such hate always caused the wars. Russia would never start a war itself, you know. German policies were concentrated on ruling the whole world, that’s why there was so many crap with France and some other countries. Russia was always protecting and confederating the countries that Germany was fussing with. That’s why Germany was never so succesful and that’s why Hitler killed himself.
Hitler and his troops were the real fascists though and Russia was AGAINST fascism. Many innocent people died protecting themselves and their families, their country.
Russia might have occupied Estonia, but it was also the one that set you guys free!
Yeah, there were those crappy Stalin & Siberia times, but THEY ARE OVER NOW!
Without Russia most of the Estonians would be killed and the small part that’s left would be SLAVES if Germany would have won WW2!! You would never ever get as far as you are right now.
Estonia is a good economical country, I think, but if the boycott continues, you will be an economical country without economy. You just will have an arrested development here. Think about this too.
so much bullshit. are you on drugs on what?
please try to be a bit more polite, “je”. I’m an Estonian and it seems to me that among the Russians in this forum, Tanya is one of the most polite and reasonable ones.
Anyway, there are a few things that I wouldn’t agree with. First, the Soviet Union was guilty in WW2, as well as Germany. Before the war started, Molotov and Ribbentrop (the Soviet and German foreign ministers) signed a pact in Moscow, they decided to be allies if one of the countries were attacked. So, in the beginning of the war they were allies, some Russians were trained in Germany etc. Also in this blog here there have been pictures of Soviet and Nazi friends before the war.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact also had a secret protocol, at the end of 1980s also Russia admitted that it existed. There Russia and Germany agreed in “influence areas” in Eastern Europe, they basically divided Europe between two empires. The Baltic states and also Finland for exemple remained in the Russian zone, so basically Russia agreed to Germany already before the war that it would invade some Eastern European countries.
I know that the Soviet Union fighted the Nazis and it was hard, but successful. I know it and there’s no question that the fall of the Nazi regime was a victory for the whole world. Anyway, although the Nazis were defeated, it’s not quite a liberation for the Baltic states in one simple reason - after that there came no liberty. There came another dictatorship. As for liberation, the USA liberated France, for exemple - there was the independent Republic of France before the war, it was occupied by the Nazis, but the Americans liberated it (of course with a big help from the French resistance, but in fact they wouldn’t have succeeded without Americans). They drove out the Nazis and gave the power back to the French, the independent Republic of France was restored. As for the Baltic states, they were first occupied by the Soviet army, then a year later by the Nazi one and a few years later by the Soviet one again. The independent Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were NOT restored. That’s the difference between liberation and another invasion.
Anyway, most Estonians don’t think that Russians should be driven out from here. There are some extremists, but there are some on the Russian side as well. Let’s just not listen to them, only then we can have an argumented discussion
Stalin committed big crimes against all nations he ruled or invaded. Estonians lost a bigger part of their population during WW2 than Jews. It is over now, Russia should not make heroes of the criminals of that time. Ordinary soldiers were not criminals, but the Soviet regime was. As for the monument… in the cemetary it’s a monument for the fallen soldiers. In the city center, with its Soviet symbols, it was also a monument of power and that was the problem. The monument to the fallen soldiers is restored in the cemetary now.
Let’s all calm down. The war ended long ago and history shouldn’t be made a weapon of politicians.
Oh, Toomas-Hendrik Ilves ( Estonian president) isn’t actually Estonian,whatever he is. I think he’s American or smth, or maybe Swedish. But anyways, that explains why Estonia wants to be like America so much. They even sent their soldiers to Iraq, haha, this is such a pathetic thing to do. Don’t they feel like they have OCCUPIED the Iraq now?
Estonians fear Russians, admit it. Atleast, Ansip does, because he sent his family abroad and after he has screwed up some things, he will leave this country for good. He doesn’t need this crap right here, you know. He can move anywhere, but you know, since cash rules everything, he will be found there and get killed, probably.
“Ilves, 52, was born in Stockholm to exiles from Soviet-dominated Estonia, which the Red Army had conquered in 1944 - 45. Like so many Baltic refugees, his parents later moved to the USA, and Ilves was educated at Columbia University, studying psychology.”
and killing women and children in chechenya is another ‘brave fight against fascism’?
p.s. don’t forget to take your medicine
in Estonia there is a strong discussion about Iraq. Not everybody supports it.
Tanya, Firstly I did not mention one word about sending Russians out of Estonia. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Secondly, Russians make up about 25% of the Estonian population so even if all of them were sent out, there would still be 75% left.
Thirdly, there are many Russians in Estonia who really do enjoy living there. They speak Estonian, have jobs they like and they want their country (that would be estonia) to do well in the world. They wouldn’t want to live in Russia. And they don’t go around the streets of Tallinn, destroying things.
“Yeah, there were those crappy Stalin & Siberia times, but THEY ARE OVER NOW!”
A recent study says that 87% of Estonians had relatives or friends who were sent to Siberia. That’s not an easy thing to just forget.
About the ‘being slaves of Germany’ thing…
“You would never ever get as far as you are right now.”
Finland didn’t get occupied and by the time Estonia became and independent country, Finland was a long way ahead of Estonia. I’m sure that without the occupation, Estonia would have done as well as Finland.
Don’t try to justify Stalin’s behaviour. What he did was horrible and caused a lot of pain to tens of thousands of people. Russia should stop denying their history. What’s done is done, there’ no point in hiding it.
And Toomas Hendrik Ilves is pure Estonian. His parents moved to Sweden during the Soviet occupation and he was born there. He grew up in the United States. I think he is doing just fine as a president. Besides, he can speak quite a few more languages than Putin.
Russia is at war with several countries. Estonian troops in Iraq are doing mainly peace-keeping. You do the math.
If Ansip hadn’t sent his family abroad, I would consider him slightly insane. Do you know how many death-threats he’s gotten in the last week? Any sane person would want to keep their family safe and Estonia isn’t as safe at the moment as it could be. He is doing the right thing, protectinh his loved ones, you shouldn’t blame him for that.
Well, I’m a little late, but I still wanna say what I have to say…..
First of all, FUCK ESTONIA.
Who cares about this little piece of shit country? You will soon be forced to chose sides again, and I suggest you go with Russia, because it is your neighbor after all. The west will abandon you quicker than the Germans did.
Second, FUCK ESTONIAN.
You got your beloved language and what not… who the fuck cares? Estonians need to learn Russian to get by in estonia, not the other way around, so get over it, nobody wants to speak your language. I’m Belorussian, you think I know how to speak it? Fuck no, and I’ll never need it in this world.
Last, BOW DOWN TO THE NEW RUSSIA.
You’ll need Russia more and more in the very near future, and you better get on our good side, because I’m sure you know what happens when your on the wrong side. Like I said, the west doesn’t give two shits about you and your resource depleted state and the first sign of trouble, you’ll be on your own, think you can stand on your own?
This isn’t about a statue, it’s about a who’s who, and what you stand for. This is a blatant sign of disrespect for Russia, and it won’t go unnoticed. All I gotta say to Estonia is enjoy your independence while it lasts, it won’t be much longer.
first of all, stay polite! Otherwise you show your own level of culture, nothing more.
As for Estonia, it’s not such a worthless piece of land as you’re trying to prove. Why all these invaders have come here during the centuries? To enjoy sunsets at the Baltic sea?
As for the Estonian language, we need it. Of course knowledge of Russian is an advantage, but if the Russians had no motivation to speak it here, our language would soon be suffocated. The idea of two official languages… do you mean that Estonians should learn Russian as an official language, but Russians wouldn’t learn Estonian because they speak also an official language? Seems that you think like that.
You said “I’m Belorussian, you think I know how to speak it? Fuck no, and I’ll never need it in this world.” It is a good exemple what happens if Russian is made another official language. It’s sad that your language is disappearing just because of the Russification. It should never happen here, and I hope that also your language will be saved before it’s too late.
And your suggestion to bow down to Russia shows the level of the Belorussian “independence” now, nothing more. An independent country doesn’t have to bow down to anybody. As far as I know, Belarus could enjoy this from 1991 to 1994.
Do you think that Russia rules the world?
Independent country in the EU, hmmmmm…. interestiing.
And of cource Estonia doesn’t bow down to America, right?
Uh, fuck being polite, its not part of my culture.
Estonia is worthless. The only thing Russia needs it for is a buffer zone. What else does Estonia provide to the region?
I don’t care if Belorussian was lost forever, so I really don’t care about Estonian. I’m saying no one should be forced to learn either of them because nobody speaks them anyway.
I’m prefectly fine with Russification, because I am Rus. No matter what the flag might say, Belarus is not independent and will forever be linked with Russia. We are the same people. We are pure Rus.
Russia rules half the world, and Estonia is on that half, so it better play by the rules or face the consequences.
Here you can see egoistic bastard.
“WHO THE FUCK CARES I AM THE BEST”
“WORLD NEEDS ONLY US”
“THERE SHOULD BE ONLY RUSSIANS ON THE PLANET”
What the fuck?
You are really stupid.
Russia found equal opponent:
Estonia - 45 227 km², 1,342 million people
VERSUS
Russia - 17 075 200 km², 142,685 million people
H O O R A Y for Putin and those russians who care only about themselves!
As history shows estonians are tough. AND WE WON’T GIVE UP!
I’m not egotistic, but i’m also not blind.
If you would open your eyes you will see the world is mainly in two camps. And it’s not Russia vs Estonia. Either your with the West, or not. Russia is the only country that cares about worthless Estonia, so show some respect. As history shows, your country is weak, and you’ll have no choice but to give up.
Did I justify what Stalin did?
No I DON’T, it is horrible, so many innocent people were sent there and not only Estonians.
Joe, I am not putting words in your mouth, I didn’t even mention you.
I am not blaming Ansip in anything, I just said that he doesn’t care about Estonia, he is simply screwing up relations with Russia.
Estonia’s problem is that it is always comparing itself with other countries - as you mentioned Finland before.
Sounds like you don’t like living in Estonia ?
Ilves isn’t even Estonian, that approves Estonian behaviour.
I don’t see anything wrong in saying Hitler was a fascist, do you ?
Ilves is a foreign Estonian, his parents were refugees. There are Estonian communities from the time of WW2 in Sweden, USA, Canada, Australia…
I don’t think it’s a problem to compare Estonia to other countries. As for Finland, it’s true. Before the WW2 Estonia was economically more developed than Finland, but because of the USSR Estonia’s development stopped for a long time and the difference between Estonia and Finland nowadays proves it.
As for the word “fascist”, it comes from the Italian word “fascio” (it means the struggle) and it was first used by Mussolini in Italy. In Germany there were the Nazis. Actually I don’t know more historical details about the difference of these words. As probably most of us don’t and “fascist” seems to be also a general name for that ideology, I don’t mind if you call Hitler a fascist. They were all on one side and they committed crimes agaist humanity. There is no question that they had to be stopped.
Anyway, I don’t like that Russia uses the word “fascist” widely against its opponents, for exemple the Baltic states (but not only). It’s not meant personally for you, Tanya, but there are enough of commentators here and also among the Russian officials who just repeat one and the same word (fascism), one and the same connection between that word and Estonia over and over again without thinking what this word is actually about. It’s just a magic word: if you say that a country has a fascist regime, if you repeat it over and over again, then people start to associate these countries with something negative, some even start to hate it just because it associates with a word they hate. The fact that the connection is actually false doesn’t matter then any more, people are used to associate us with that word and that’s what motivates them. Words can be powerful weapons.
So, I’m sure that the word “fascist” should remain only for the evil ideology of Germany and Italy during WW2. Let’s hope it will disappear into history, it should certainly not become a common insult or a propagandistic weapon.
this site provides you false imformation… the picture is made to look like that with photoshop. The statue is not demolished, it was just taken to a cemetary where it belongs, also the remains of the deceased are taken to the semetary. before the bodys were under the pavement in busstop and people were literally walking on them. The statue hasnt been damaged and is reopened in a cemetary. Russians are only trying to give Estonia a bad name, the riots were provoked by russia and because of safety measures the statue was taken away to semetary earlyer than planned so next day russians were angry, because it was supposed to be taken away not before 9th may. But it was taken away earlyer because of the riots. The person who died in riots was killed by another rioter not police. Ive heard they were fighting over who gets to steel a hugo boss shirt so 1 stabbed the other.
Estonia is for Estonians. Nobody from other states or nationalities can tell Estonians what they can or cannot do in their country. Our so called liberators forgot to go back home after liberating Estonia. Russian red army came to Tallinn when it was already free. Russians tore off Estonian national flag…
fucking ugly posting that fotozhaba/photoshop fake :/
lamers
Actually i would also like to mention that before gemrans started with theyr barbarossa plan they were actually allied with russia in deviding europe. Any1 heard of the Molotov-Ribbendrop pact? Russia would get baltic states etc and they would devide poland into 2. Only later germany wanted to also conquer russia too and thats when the russians had to fight against germany. They were just protecting theyr asses. Russia did not liberate us, it occupied us.
by the way, OMON reads HOMO in cyrillic backwards
A letter from mother of the “enemy of nation”
My son Mark Siryk has been arrested. The day whaen it happened he was walking to school,
he was detained, handcuffed and driwen away. He was not on the square when there were disturbances.
He is just a boy that didn’t want the Bronze Soldier to be taken away. He did not summon anybody
to violence and massacres, he believed in justice, believed in EU and democratical Estonia.
In one day they made him almost the enemy of nation. They made a search in our house, confiscated all the
notebooks, computer, bank cards without explaining the reason. First they told me that he was detained
for 48 hours, but later they let know that the arrest will last half of year.
All this in the year when Mark finishes the school! Why? No one can explain why is the arrest,
handcuffs and half of year in prison. These arrangement could be applicable to a very dangerous crimer,
but not to a boy who wanted to organize picket at the monument.
I don’t know what can be done with him there by the people who had a lump in childrens’ throat at
daylight, beaten people that were down or sitting with batons and feet. I believe that in the conditions
of the prison it is possible to beat out any statements and find an evidence of Moscow’s hands or anything else.
What will my son be thinking about Estonia? And what will think tens, hundreds of boys and girls in this
country, that were grabbed at day, pulled out from the crowd and whose faces were pressed to tha asfalt by feet?
And what I, the mother of the boy, will think? But unlike with him, I understand very good that someone needs
a sensation about an unveil of a conspiracy, in order to find an excuse of what had happened on the streets of
Tallinn. And now it is very convenient for them to lay the blame on children.
My son is in the disaster, we were placed on the edge of a material catastrophe. We will have judgements and
advocates ahead. Mark must be free again. And I hope that honest-minded people will help and support us because
we are not able to survive this nightmare alone.
Our e-mail is sosmarkfree@gmail.com; tel +372 564 77727 .
Irina Siryk
dear all anti soviets and their ideology,you missed very valid truth about the herioc struggle of the soviet forces and rusian peoples.if they don,t resist against the evil of nazis and hitler,our elders might be died in concertation camps of ss in germany!!!!.please recognise true place of these martyers of humanity.if you dont,fuck you all and kiss your own dirty ass.enough is enough,i tolerate these attitude since the division of cccp.now i can fuck you all.
All of the above is very sad, especially to someone who has been in Tallin and many times to Rossiya. Perhaps it is because the commenters are 14 years old? Or is it just adults who’ve internalized the killer myths of Leninist-Stalinist Socialist ‘construction’? Or is it just plain ethno-centrism, one culture against another? (hardly a new cause of crap).
My Russki friends should keep in mind that in Estonia, the entire senior political class was deported to the Gulag, mostly then shot out of hand, including family. Some of them are (re)-buried above Tallin on that haunting hill cemetary.
True, Estonia has some things to answer for, but Rossiya? - - - it’s really quite regrettable - the scope of the mass-killer crimes. Imagination fails. Better as a Russki to forget, after all that was my daduska (maybe), so put it aside.
What I think is important is to honor the dead - the killed. Which are 90% Russki. So go north along the east side of the Moscow River, above Mockba and ask around. There are 1/4 million, at least, of your own buried there. You have other choices, Karelia, Vorkuta, Kolyma, Karaganga - - so many mass graves, so little time.
Or if short of time and travel funds, skip all that and just join ‘Memorial’, and do your part. I mean, somewhere between 25 and 60 million of your ancestors just didn’t ‘dissapeare’. Their bodies must be somewhere!!! So help.
Gerry
Just a few examples of anti-Semitism in Estonia:
In February 2005 the Ministry of Defense distributed a movie to Estonian schools, which praised Estonian volunteers to the SS during World War II and claimed that the Nazi occupation saved Estonia from the Soviets. No mention was made of the SS murder of Jews or of the transportation of thousands of Jews to camps in Estonia.
On 9 February 2005 the newspaper Kesknadal of the mainstream Centrist Party, a member of the government coalition, published an article by former Nazi legionnaire, I. Saar entitled, “History Cannot Be Sold at Auction,” criticizing the Estonian government’s decision from September 2004 to dismantle a memorial in the city of Lihula honoring Estonian SS soldiers.
On 16 July 2005 about 1,500 former Estonian SS collaborators held a rally in Tartu, attended by Rein Lang, minister of justice (Reform Party).
In mid-August a group of Holocaust researchers from Germany visiting Estonia discovered that the memorial to Holocaust victims in Klooga had been desecrated. The memorial marks the place where 2,000 Jews were shot to death and burnt on 19 September 1944. A local Jew told the visitors that the desecration had occurred in summer 2004 but the perpetrators had not been caught and the memorial was never repaired.
In early August the trial of Olev Khannula for incitement of hatred began in the city of Tallinn. In 2003 he wrote “Jews to the oven” on the Internet forum of the Delfi news site. The prosecutor said that the trial would serve as a precedent, establishing a clear line between freedom of speech and incitement of ethnic hatred…….
Shall I go on?
Maybe Estonians have a problem with soviet occupation, why crap on what is most sacred to Russia. Why dig up the bodies of those that liberated concentration camps, of those that sacrificed thier lives to lift Estonia up from under the heel of Nazism. This while just a couple of years back erecting a monument to the Waffen SS. This is not an act of patriotism, it is an act of hate and provocation. This act has ripped off the mask off of Estonians and the govt. they support, and reveiled their policies of bigotry (people who settled there after 1940 were declared non-citizens, for ethnic cleansing reasons). Shame on Esonia, I hope Russia turns of its supply of gas and oil to them.
First of all, nothing happened to the statue. It was taken away from city center, where it was before standing next to a bus stop (built in soviet times) to a war cemetary where also the monuments for british soldiers stand.
Secondly: Estonia has population of 1,4 million (majority women, children, old people)- how is it supposed to threaten Russia?
Thirdly: Majority of Russians disagree with the dids (burning the shops, robbing them, destroying property without even caring why they do it etc)
Some facts:
There is nowadays jewish population also living in Estonia. I know they are respected and known as smart people with initiative. Estonians get very sentimental with Holokaust subjects, they feel the connection as they see that Holokaust was made for them by the Russians (also nazi Germany considered Estonians for destroying, some for lower kind of work). Also swedish, finnish, ukrainians, italians, americans, germans live in Estonia. No complaints have heard from them.
“The creation of the Republic of Estonia in 1918 marked the beginning of a new era for the Jews. Approximately 200 Jews fought in combat for the creation of the Republic of Estonia and 70 of these men were volunteers. From the very first days of her existence as a state, Estonia showed her tolerance towards all the peoples inhabiting her territories. On 12 February 1925 the Estonian government passed a law pertaining to the cultural autonomy of minority peoples. The Jewish community quickly prepared its application for cultural autonomy.”
Many people were shot, killed, sent to Siberia without a trial. Considering the number of Estonians back then serious Holokaust was committed. Every family has somebody who was sent to Siberia, usually they never came bacl. Visit the Occupation museum in Riga for example, you will see the conditions where Baltic people lived not just remind the jewish conditions, but are almost alike.
“Soviet rule was imposed by force. The totalitarian communist regime of the Soviet Union conducted large-scale and systematic actions against the Estonian population, including, for example, the deportation of about 10,000 persons on 14 June 1941 and of more than 20,000 on 25 March 1949. After the Second World War, tens of thousands of persons went into hiding in the forests to avoid repression by the Soviet authorities; part of those in hiding actively resisted the occupation regime. According to the data of the security organs, about 1,500 persons were killed and almost 10,000 arrested in the course of the resistance movement of 1944-1953″
Considering the number of Estonians, only about 1 million, this is a considerable number. How do the people who swear Estonians explain this?
The comments saying: “Fuck Russia” and generalizing are written by uneducated minority of people and please ignore them.
New location in the war cemetary of bronze soldier: http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/384060
And once again: what’s all that with the lousy photoshop? :))
PS: I am not saying that the policy of Estonia has been perfect always, but which nation has a stainless policy? Russia? Finland? Croatia? I don’t think you guys would find any. But such accusations are evil and narrowminded.
Intresting. The anti spam words are like: russia and soviet :)))
Interesting, anti spam words are: russia, soviet…
Next is Stalin? Glory?
If you don’t like the way we do, get the hell out of Estonia and go back to your pathetic russia.
As sad as it might be, the link below shows in what horrible proportions Naz