Red Dots on Moscow Skies

red flying dots on Moscow skies 1

Those red moving dots were spotted on 29th of June, 2007 in Moscow. Around the midnight many red dots were moving through Moscow skies on the altitude of around 300-400 meters (1200 ft), lower than clouds. They were noticed by many people on the streets, some took of the cam phones trying to make the photos but it was pretty dark for a quality photos. Still on these photos you can see how they were moving in group, without making any sound, as people report with the speed of 120-140 mph (200 km/h).





red flying dots on Moscow skies 2

red flying dots on Moscow skies 3

red flying dots on Moscow skies 4

red flying dots on Moscow skies 5

red flying dots on Moscow skies 6

red flying dots on Moscow skies 7

red flying dots on Moscow skies 8

red flying dots on Moscow skies 9

red flying dots on Moscow skies 10

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    4:56 pm


    168 Responses to “Red Dots on Moscow Skies”

    1. numb says:

      first!

      maybe they are some particles from space

    2. .. says:

      maybe they are drones from the military. they’re designed to fly at low speed without making any considerable noise, for surveillance purposes.

    3. Texas1 says:

      How sweet and touching! The Russians are celebrating the 4th of July. I always knew they secretly admired and loved the USA.

      • Me and Garry Kasparov organised this event to show our devotion to the beam of democracy George W Bush!!

        USA USA USA :)

        • Texas1 says:

          It’s so refreshing to know that in a country with so many people blind to the west that there are a few lucky people who have a clear vision. It’s just sad that Russia and the EU won’t get on board with our fight to stomp out fundamental Islam. We could do it if everyone would just join in.

          • We support your war of Terror!!!

            • Texas1 says:

              Not if you are trying to help the enemy by helping them develop a nuke program.

              I wish Europe would get over their little penis syndrome, stop trying to anti-western, and join with us to kick some ass. The damn muslims are your enemies too.

              Can’t we all just work together to blast them back to biblical days?

              • I really hope that was joke Texas1. Surely you cannot be suggesting that “War on Terror” could ever be won? Or that motives of Bush administration are to fight extremists and not to enlarge their empire? Just when I thought americans are begginig to understand that they have been used as sheep, manipulated ane lead by the nose, you give me this. I just hope you are joking Texas1, I really do.

                • Jim Jones says:

                  Unfortunately, Texas1 might just as well be called Texas1000000, because there are at least a million people in Texas alone who feel exactly the same way as Texas1 writes. And that’s just one state.

                  I’m guessing about 10% of Americans have this completely deluded way of thinking, which means there are at least 30 million people in the USA who have a similar mentality to the Muslim extremists they want to kill.

                  However, the more sobering statistic is the fact that there are still about 100 million people in the USA who continue to believe in and support Bush and his agenda.

                  The fact that you can’t tell if Texas1 is joking or not is pretty scary. But, the fact that he’s not joking is even scarier.

                  • The most worring thing that I have noticed from his comment is when he said - “The damn muslims are your enemies too”. I can’t believe he could genralize all muslims in such as way. Also, it seems to me that he is not only against their religion as such, but also their race (i.e. mostlly arabic). Therefore, if he wasn’t joking, it would seem to me that his sentiment is very reminiscent of sentiment expressed in Nazi Germay, - and that’s truly truly worrying.

                    Just a few reasons why the “War of Terror” could never be won:

                    1) Who exactly are you fighting? Are you fighting a specific army or a regime? - no!

                    2)For every muslim extremist you kill, there will be ten more in his place. This is because he/she would be considered a martyr and would inspire much more attacks.

                    3) You CANNOT kill all Muslims, even if you use the “Nazi cleansing approach”.

                    4) The more aggressive your foreign policy is towards muslim countries, the more terrorist attacks you will suffer.

                    5) Finally, haven’t your government learned from history, or at least learned for the mistakes of SU? You will never have control of Afghanistan, trust me we tried. I’m not even going to comment on Iraq at this point.

                    The only way is through peace. Just look at Russia. It has stopped the terrible atrocities that were committed in Chechnia, and declared an amnesty. What is the result? End of war, blod and violence.

                    Peace, love and Freedom people :)

                    • Wooshkaboom says:

                      I’m not exactly in favor of the “War on Terror” that Bush’s administration has been running, in fact I think it is really misguided, but just out of interest, what do YOU think the United States should have done after 9/11? Or are you perhaps one of those people who think that the United States got just what it deserved in 9/11?

                      I mean, it’s one thing to be in favor of peace, but it is another thing entirely to watch people come and kill your country’s citizens and not retaliate in some way… that would be just stupid, and it would give the “green light” for all terrorists around the world.

                      Personally, I think that all deeply religious people (meaning those who try to enforce their ideas on others or react violently to criticism against their own philosophy, like in the Jyllandsposten Muhammad-comic -incident) are more or less insane to begin with, so I understand to some degree the “evil muslims”-idea, although I don’t agree with it as such.

                      • Regarding the 9/11 issue, I have no doubt that this terrible autrocity was committed by CIA. After all, this is the same evil oragnisation that tortures people (including political opponents )in secret prisons in europe and god knows where else. This is the same organisation that supported Sadam, and now Al qaeda leaders during the previous afghan war. This is the same organisation that eliminates any serious opposition by assinations and blackmail. This is the same organisation that supported and still supports a number of dangerous dictators. This is the same organisation that organised terrorist attacks in cuba and worked together with the mafia in trying to eliminate Castro, who freed Cuba from brutal rule of Batista, etc, etc, etc..

                        In fact if we try to compare CIA and KGB, there is absolutely no doubt that CIA is much more oppressive, evil and dangerous then KGB ever was. 9/11 gave US a gren light to attack any muslim country with an excuse of War on Terror in order to extend their evil empire further and further. Plus there are plenty of evidence to support this clam. Even if there is a chance that CIA themselves did not commit this terrible crime, they were certainly aware of what is going to happen and did nothing to stop it! Is anyone wondering why? - I am not.

                    • Doug says:

                      “For every muslim extremist you kill, there will be ten more in his place. This is because he/she would be considered a martyr and would inspire much more attacks.”

                      -that is a two way street that counts against them as much as us.

                      “The more aggressive your foreign policy is towards muslim countries, the more terrorist attacks you will suffer.”
                      -that works both ways also.

                      “Who exactly are you fighting? Are you fighting a specific army or a regime? - no!”
                      - I admit that it is an empty phrse, sort of like “war on poverty” “struggle against social injustice”, “struggle against racism”, “struggle against capitalism” etc…

                    • Joseph says:

                      Boris, the majority of the Afghans actually like us a lot.

                • Texas1 says:

                  Blah, we don’t need a larger empire we just need an end to Islamic fundamenalism. Whether you are a conservative or a liberal, can’t you agree to that?

              • D says:

                You are blind.

              • Let’s stop blaming Russia! If I recall, U.S. was arming Israel’s enemies such as Iran, Syria, Afghanistan just to name a few…

              • bikenutt says:

                There is so much wrong with this comment that it’s difficult to know where to begin. You can not successfully westernize an ancient culture with conservative and tribal backgrounds by bombing them. You have to support the local infrastructure and make life better for the people to win hearts and minds. This bozo does not speak for all the folks in the U.S.. This is the simplistic might makes right approach. Any person with knowledge of anti-terrorist and ground based tactics will tell you this. If you are actually in Texas that also explains a lot, and by the way for all the people across the pond reading this, Texas ans Florida are considered a joke to the people on the east an d west coast of the U.S…..now you know why. Bye the way Boris said “war of terror” not “war on terror”, its Borat, dumbass, not a serious comment!

          • Which branch of the military did you join?

          • Tell Laura Bush I enjoyed that care package with the chocolate chip cookies!

          • eliseiZorine says:

            texas1, when americans say twenty o’seven instead of two thousand seven, is it because they have 8 bit processors in their brains?;

          • Tom says:

            Wait, the UK are a member of the EU and we’re helping out your asses so, please, don’t blame all of Europe for a few countries.

        • I am says:

          Boris are you Texas1 ?

      • sc says:

        in soviet russia, the skies light you!

    4. Russia is not the union of soviets. Russia is the Great Russian Empire, under the leadership of the true Orthodox Csar.

    5. Zak says:

      Traces of flux capacitor.

    6. Liam says:

      Ok these are either http://www.roswellrods.com (unlikely) or fire balloons (highly likely).

      OK - to make a fire balloon you will need a big plastic bag, a large bin liner will be fine, though a clear one like a dry cleaners bag. Next you need piano wire (this is not the wire they use in pianos! it is very thin steel wires. Any fair stiff thin wire will do. It you don’t have wire you can do it with balsa wood and two paper clips. Finally you need one of those waxy ice cube looking fire lighters.

      Push two sections of the wire (about 18 inchs long) through the fire lighter at right angles, so you now have a wire cross.

      Now open out the bag and poke the wire through the bag, twisting the wire to secure. The bag should now be held open at 4 points. Hold the bag at the top, light the flame and keep hold of it for a while until it really wants to be launched. Let go and watch it fly! The ambinent air needs to be cold for this o work well! On hot muggy nights it WIL NOT FLY and will land in a neighbours yard and probably cuase a fire! On cold nights it will shoot up and fly higher and higher for about 15 minutes. When the flame goes out the whole kit will parachute to the ground and can be reused (if you can find it!)

      Launching in threes looks best, and they form a nice triangle, which constantly changes proportions. (Sounds like lot’s of UFO sites eh? These are probably the most common explanation!) Depending on the fuel used can look red, blue or white. Hanging strips of tin foil from these cause them to show on radar. Attaching light weight flashing LEDs to various parts (or hanging below) can make other brilliant displays.

      The reason they appear as lines in the photos above will be because the shutter stayed open a little too long to cope with the dark skys, giving the fire balloons time to move.

      Here are some other photos (bottom of page): http://www.ufoinfo.com/sightings/uk/050910.shtml that were later shown to be fireballoons

      For more info see here: http://www.apra.org.uk/ufoballoons.htm

      A make-your-own guide: http://www.overflite.com/

      Also:
      http://www.geocities.com/timbo2049/fireballoons.htm
      http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/5003/balloon.htm

    7. eliseiZorine says:

      irrelevant but i found this funny:
      nm (from ostrie.ru):
      В далекие 80-е, многие мужчины нашей великой Родины пользовались одеколонами советского производства. Муж одной знакомой, например, пользовался “русским лесом”, который имел “приятный” зеленый цвет, не говоря уже о запахе. Однажды, мой сын играл с соседским мальчишкой, и они случайно разлили этот божественный EAU de Parfume. Испугавшись, что отец будет его ругать, сын разбавил оставшийся одеколон водой и… зеленкой. Утром, т.к. муж вставал очень рано, он старался никого не будить, собирался на работу, не включая свет. Он оделся, умылся, налил в руки немного одеколона, размазал его по лицу и, довольный жизнью и запахом, пошел на работу. Ровно через десять минут не спал весь дом, в этот день зеленолицый муж остался дома.

    8. Bill says:

      are you people completely retarted?!?!? i get these spots on my DSLR all the time, its just dust on the sensor, the one that makes it looks like it was moving was just a longer exposure with the camera being moved slightly. come on people think!!!!!!!!!!

      • Texas1 says:

        Damn dude, you live in a dusty place. Get an air cleaner.

      • “”are you people completely retarted?!?!? i get these spots on my DSLR all the time, its just dust on the sensor, the one that makes it looks like it was moving was just a longer exposure with the camera being moved slightly. come on people think!!!!!!!!!!”"

        if it is a spot on the sensor, it will move with the camera- how will that make a streak? duh.

        you’re so retarded you can’t even spell retarded.

    9. Pavel says:

      They are Rods. Google them. They might be insects that produce an effect on the camera.

    10. Zim says:

      It’s swamp gas, filthy worm monkeys! Nothing to see here, go about your usual business… everything is perfectly normal…

    11. muslim_hater says:

      If i send an email to a local msoque openly asking them why do they seek to murder non muslim people, do you think ill get in trouble?

    12. eliseiZorine says:

      why oppose islam? “Because the West is facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists, the motives and goals of whom are largely ignored by the Western media, to destroy the West and bring it forcibly into the Islamic world — and to commit violence to that end even while their overall goal remains out of reach. That effort goes under the general rubric of jihad.”

    13. Carl Sagan says:

      …there are billions and billions of peaches in the universe…
      …peaches for you…
      …peaches for me…

    14. Doug says:

      The red dots are our prototypes of the new missle interceptors being launched from the Czech Republic and guided from our new base in Poland.

    15. vanda says:

      bliat’ pochemu vse tak govoriat po dolboebski - Превед! Йа клубничко. WTF!! WTF i say!! please someone explain it to me cause it fucking pisses me off.

    16. Misha says:

      FOR ALL LOSERS WHO DONT KNOW WHAT ISLAM or MUSLIMS ARE………. READ THE BIBLE!!!!!!!!!!
      THEY WILL ALWAYS FIGHT CHRISTIANS NO MATTER WHERE, ISRAEL US OR EUROPE!!! CANT YOU SEE IT HAPPENING????

    17. Molodjez says:

      he, guys from englishrussia…… where the fuck are some NEW pics? every week a new pic? look at the guys from pizdaus…… cool stuff every day instead of “everyweekanewpic” with comments from some drunken russians with their amarican bitches…….

      dawaij

    18. Thales says:

      Fuck… where the hell r the new posts?!

    19. Texas1 says:

      It’s the Boris family with their favorite sheep. :) j/k

      http://www.pizdaus.com/pics/LnVw284dNdQw.jpg

    20. kokibuster says:

      As a proud muslim I can tell you that we will kill 10 americans for each muslim that dies in war.

      Amecica, be ready, the war in your homeland is ready, millions of you will die

      • mancunny says:

        so far you’ve only been killing fifty of your own for every american soldier dead in iraq. ebanaya churka

      • Misha says:

        You brainless animals only know how to keel your self. The Hell with Mahomed are waiting for you!!!

      • Why cant we all just love one another? Violence breeds more violence! Why are people so ignorant not to understand this?

        • kokibuster says:

          The’ve killed many people, now the real Evil Empire will have to pay, and the dictator Bush II will die and go to hell.

          Long live to Saudi Arabia!

        • Misha says:

          Boris, sol`ko volka ne lubi/kormi on vse ravno v les xochet/smotrit. Skol`ko d`yavola ne lubi on vse ravno tvoey smerti xochet! Dont you get it???

          • I am staying as far away from this conversation as possible. I am sad I go involved in the first place. But can I just say, you people are adding even more logs to the fire, instead of putting it out..

      • quack quack says:

        And when everyone is dead, american and muslim, the oil corporations will dance in like devils over your corpses to steal your oil.

        Kill oil company CEOs. You kill three or four, the war stops. Easy.

    21. misha says:

      I just realized I’m sitting in the chocolate poopy chair, and the stains will never come out

      http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8677/gabm38rk2.jpg

    22. This is of cource totally irrelevant, but can I just say, what an amazing performance by Madonna at Live Earth!! Amazing!!! Amazing!! AMAZING!!!!!

      She is a ture pop Goddess!! Al Gore, you are one of the few hopes for America. Do not let us down!

    23. Thales says:

      Madonna? Live Earth? Musllims? Americans?! Fuck, we need a new post.

      Misha, kokibuster and u all: why don’t u stop typing and go push some triggers, huh? For sure it won’t help anyway, but at least it will work.

    24. glvoid; says:

      misha , unlike you ive already left this forum cause people here dont listen to what you are saying; so do what i do: find a mosque in the town you reside & stir some shit up with them; start by painting walls of the mosque at night with this: وهنا قتل اولئك الذين ليسوا مسلمين;
      that will certainly piss them off and will bring some bad publicity; and then burn it; good luck;

    25. Texas1 says:

      Who is teaching all of the gorillas kungfu?

    26. Misha says:

      I am a gay and i have muslim husband in britain

    27. Texas1 says:

      Did this site die? Anyone up to starting a new one?

      • I think they are having some technical problems. But the forum still works… + we have managed to turn this entry into a political forum in its own right, so I dont see any problems there..

    28. bumblebee says:

      America is a terrorist organization in itself:
      The United States has been involved militarily, through the use of missiles or bombs, with 22 countries since the end of World War II.

      These include: China 1945-46, 1950-53; Korea 1950-53; Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69; Indonesia 1958; Cuba 1959-61; Congo 1964; Peru 1965; Laos 1964-73; Vietnam 1961-73; Cambodia 1969-70; Lebanon 1983-84; Grenada 1983; Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s; Nicaragua 1980s; Panama 1989; Iraq 1991 to present day; Somalia 1993; Bosnia (Republic of Srpska) 1995; Sudan 1998; Yugoslavia 1999; and Afghanistan 1998, 2001-02.

      However, added to this figure of 22 would be at least 18 other countries which were on the receiving end of bombing during the two World Wars, such as Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Hungary, Italy, Tunisia, Greece, Austria, Romania, Japan, Thailand, Nauru, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, the Marshall Islands, Singapore, and the Phillipines.

      So in total there have been at least 40 countries.

    29. bumblebee says:

      Funny fact about America:

      The United States has been involved militarily, through the use of missiles or bombs, with 22 countries since the end of World War II.

      These include: China 1945-46, 1950-53; Korea 1950-53; Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69; Indonesia 1958; Cuba 1959-61; Congo 1964; Peru 1965; Laos 1964-73; Vietnam 1961-73; Cambodia 1969-70; Lebanon 1983-84; Grenada 1983; Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s; Nicaragua 1980s; Panama 1989; Iraq 1991 to present day; Somalia 1993; Bosnia (Republic of Srpska) 1995; Sudan 1998; Yugoslavia 1999; and Afghanistan 1998, 2001-02.

      However, added to this figure of 22 would be at least 18 other countries which were on the receiving end of bombing during the two World Wars, such as Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Hungary, Italy, Tunisia, Greece, Austria, Romania, Japan, Thailand, Nauru, Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, the Marshall Islands, Singapore, and the Phillipines.

      So in total there have been at least 40 countries.

      But I also agree that something needs to be done about muslim extremists.

    30. bumblebee says:

      sorry first I thought didn’t post!

    31. Misha says:

      bumblebee shake your brain, America is most rich country and when you get rich you need to protect of what you got, otherwise someone will take it + America was founded by free people ands that is the reason why America help others to get free. At least America helped me(and millions of others) to get free, that I know for sure!

    32. Read my book, Misha, War is a Racket. Then you will not be so ignorant. Knowledge is free.

      http://humanclub.org/war_is_a_racket.htm

    33. AK-47 says:

      Misha you fucking american pig dont call yourself russian any more! Stupid kid

      • Misha says:

        I wish I was born in America. All russian could do was AK-47. What else???? Went to space oh wow!!! That didnt give me any!!! They also put my dad in prison for simply being a christian(means honest, helping others etc.) Is that what you are proud of???
        PS. I`m no longer Russian, I`m American now Thanks GOD!!! Plus my son at age 6 is a pro drummer playing with Allen White(Yes band), Matt Chamberlain etc. What could he do in Russsia, you are right, NOTHING!!! America gave us everything!!!

        • Kosman36 says:

          It’s the Jewish communissts that were eradicating Christianity, don’t blame ordinary Russians like me for this, rather understand them, if you have suffered and they have suffered that what senc is it to blame them? blame the government American!

    34. Angry Man says:

      If you’re just going to piss and moan about politics and turn this into a forum for stupid Americans, close English Russia down. This sucks! No new content and 100+ posts from idiots throwing shit at each other. Fuck you and your war, Islam AND Christianity BOTH SUCK! Religious people are weak-minded scum being led around by the ruling class. I’d ask you all to wake up, but it looks like you never will.

    35. Wow,. allot of stuff about war sparked by some faulty film!

    36. Dave says:

      Support our cause! All evil empires collapse, USA will not be an exception.

      http://www.anti-imperialist.org/

      :)

    37. glvoid; says:

      as a counter-religion to militant islam i propose a quasi-religious set of behaviors essentials of which are accidental vandalism of personal property (that of a muslim) and irrational intolerability of muslims in general, that must not directly trigger violence or hatred; if it is followed sacredly by many or some, then its principles can be legally obeyed as religion, called iBlia (intolerability of basic liberties of islamic ass . . . . s); im just joking; i wrote this last night when i was pissed of and now i am not, so its a joke;

    38. Bym-Bym says:

      So, what were the little red lights in the sky?

    39. Chinga says:

      AMERIKOS - ENTO SRANIY PENDOS!!! )))
      RUSSIA FOREVER!!!

    40. concare says:

      you silly americans you don’t understand that the peace is not in nuke bombs or smth like that… you don’t understand that your goverment is killing the hole world and event there selvs.. you even dont have bees because you try to be gods of world and do things that only it self (the nature) can do you can’t play gods and do genetic engered corn or some fuckin shit like that… look at you by the statistics most fat man live in USA even 78% you never thing before eating mcdonals hambureges… you even do not know how to make food in your own kitchen… when i was in USA i was terryfied of your girls they are really FAT!!! only the hollywood has its chemical beauty…:DDDD and the peoples IQ is obout 60 when in europe it is obout 100 and obove.. look at your humor… you cen learn hot to make fun… your comediants cant be more childis… all of the KNOWS THAT USA HUMOR IS sTUPID!! your life is stupid you don’t understan tha you all live the same life… only thing that americans have is only money!!! and nothing more… you cant understan that the money, house and atc is not the things that make you happy!! if someone wants write me back write me concare@walla.com

    41. piranha78 says:

      lol i cant get over the strange and stupid ideas here as a photographer i can tell you i have hundreds of photos like this laying around in my reject file these are in fact stair trails across the image lol easy as that.

      • gordski says:

        You know the exposure time? _under_ cloudbase? againsnt _darkes_ section of cloud? no stars visible where no cloud? think again, Mr Pro……

        btw people, the “skyfish” theory is proven to be just bugs flying past the cameras.

        These are more like orange-white fireballs, and are seen in gourps of more than 2, sometime 15+

    42. apto says:

      I saw them near Ural last summer

    43. Mikey says:

      I saw them in St. Petersburg on next day (30.06.2007).

    44. Boris that pretty much sums it up. If one looks at the CIA’s history, it’s not difficult to imagine that they were somehow involved in the 9/11 attacks. We do know that they were aware that something big was about to happen and that something big was just what the neocons were looking for.

    45. Wooshkaboom says:

      Well, all I can say about that is remind people about the paradox that comes up with nearly all of these conspiracy theories -which is the implication that the US government (or the CIA or whatever institution) is SO CUNNING AND EFFICIENT that it can clandestinely orchestrate an intricate event like 9/11, but at the same is SO INEPT AND CARELESS that some random individuals could see through their plots.

      And EVEN IF the CIA would have been responsible for 9/11 (which itself sounds like something coming from someone wearing a hat made out aluminum foil and hearing voices from their tooth-fillings), they certainly aren’t in command of the various muslim extremist groups who say that everyone who isn’t a muslim should be executed, nor have they arranged any multinational muslim protests demanding the beheading of Danish cartoonists…

      But just for the sake of argument, let me ask you again: What do YOU think a country should do if someone made an attack like 9/11 against it’s citizens?

    46. I am gald you agree, or at least express your INDIVIDUAL opinion. From what I can see, if all americans were like you, then US would be loved, respected and admired all over the world. Americans would never allow such mistakes as “BUSH” or CIA to ruin and degrade their much beloved country.

      God “SAVE” America!

    47. Doug makes money either way, he’s selling missiles to both sides.

    48. I will answer your question. But in exchange, I also want you to be good enough to answer your own question.

      These attacks (if not perpetrated by CIA) are cleary a result of your country’s aggressive foreign policy. Therefore, in a sort-term nothing could be done about it. You will just have to live with it. A long-term solution, would of cource have to be a major change in foreign policy. It isn’t as hard as they make you to believe. You have to ask yourself, - are countries with non-aggressive foreign policy being attacked?

    49. Typical Republican talking points “Wooshkaboom. Typical Republican tactics. Trouble is, you are the one wearing the tinfoil hat. The voices you hear are not from your fillings, they are from an increasingly desparate Republican leadership. The incompetence of the Iraq war, Katrina etc. demonstrate that cunning and efficiency are not required. These people are willing to take us into the abyss to maintain power. God help us.

    50. I would say that currently 50% to 60% agree that the Bush administration is out of control. Some 20% to 30% will follow the Republican talking points without question. The remainder don’t care or are too busy trying to make a living. The overiding factor in American politics since 9/11 is fear. The second is a compliant and/or intimidated media. The third is to stiffle dissent and discredit opposition. And all this occurs while the administration guts our Constitutional rights and robs the treasury. Although some people are waking up to this fascist nightmare, most Americans don’t realize what a catastrophy this is and what this means for the future.

    51. Wooshkaboom says:

      First of all, the United States is not “my country”, I was born, and live, in Finland. I haven’t claimed nor implied that I were US citizen, but the fact that you automatically assumed that I was one, might reveal that your views in this issue are somewhat biased?

      Secondly, “do nothing” is not a politically viable option in this kind of an event. Any government that would opt for non-action following an attack that has lead to significant loss of civilian life would find that they would not be in power for very long - the majority of the public, or those individuals holding relevant political and economical influence in the society, simply would not tolerate that kind of a “this was our own fault”-attitude, and the government would quickly change into one that would take action against the/an aggressor.

      Thirdly, the foreign policy of the United States regarding the Middle East isn’t just some wanton modern invention of an oil-hungry nation. It actually has very long roots going back to the times of the Cold War, and in those times it had very much to do with the aggressive military action undertaken in the region by the Soviet Union.

      Fourthly, what are the countries with “non-aggressive foreign policy”? The US and the UK are not the only ones being hit by terrorist attacks, and, on the other hand, not all of the NATO-countries have been attacked. And, if you look at the “public announcements” made by muslim extremists, you’ll see that the majority of the time they are threatening “the West” and “all non-muslims”, and not just NATO-countries.

      As to the response to 9/11, personally I would have increased covert action against terrorism (yes, including assasinations of terrorist leaders outside the US) and given more attention to homeland security. The attack into Afghanistan was essentially proper and correct, but it was conducted very poorly, allowing too much time for Al-Qaeda to escape. The attack into Iraq, on the other hand, was an utter failure and a big, big mistake.

      I would have also made every attempt to improve relations with “neutral” muslim nations, in order to reduce proliferation of extremism among the muslim population. I perhaps would have also issued a “no holds barred” -statement regarding US retaliation in the case of future terrorist events, with subtle implications of use of nuclear weaponry (this kind of a statement has, in fact, been given by France a while ago). This would not probably have much effect on brainwashed extremists, but it would alert the rest of the world to understand that terrorism is not just about the US and oil.

    52. Wooshkaboom says:

      Sorry, you’re all wrong there. I actually HATE the current US Republican government, but I have enough common sense to realize that “United States” isn’t some “evil empire”, but just another country in the world.

      I also have the sense to realize that issues in global politics aren’t black and white, and you can’t just simply choose between “war and peace”, or even more ludicrously, between “good and bad”. Another thing in which I like to keep my wits with me, are conspiracy theories. OK, I believe that the US government has lied about things concerning 9/11. But do I think that there’s some enormous conspiracy to frame muslim extremists for 9/11, orchestrated by the CIA or the Republicans, or perhaps the Illuminati or better yet, Jews? Sorry mr. Mulder, not today.

      Clinton had things pretty well under control during his day, but Bush is just a moron. “Could’ve, would’ve, should’ve”, but I believe 9/11 would never have happened if Bill had been in office.

      Though as I am not even a US citizen (I’m Finnish), I don’t think I could really be labeled Republican… :D

    53. It seems you are making the assumptions. I said you were using typical Republican talking points and tactics. The United States is not “just another country in the world”. Under the Cheney administration the U.S. has continued the neo-conservative agenda of agressive use of military force (with considerable nuclear capability) paired with predatory business practices. If you don’t beleive it, go here;
      http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html
      Then read this; http://aleman.polsci.uh.edu/syllabus_and_courses/undergraduate/Regular%20Semester/Globalization/Kristol&Kagan%20(1996).pdf
      What I’ve said is not some wacko theory, it is based upon the written policy of the neocon elite. You may recognize many of these people as members of the Cheney administration. George Bush may be a moron, but this facist crowd is also made up of sociopaths, criminals and ex-CIA goons.

    54. Wooshkaboom says:

      Well, one of your links doesn’t work, and the other one just demonstrates that the US is currently being run by idiots, which I already knew.

      That doesn’t mean that they’re going to actually be able to carry out some heinous fourth-reich -plan. The US has had controversial wars before, and it has had poorly managed disasters before - the present situation is nothing new in that respect. What is new, is that currently the US is the only real super-power in the world, but even this is rapidly changing with EU unification, the rise of China and Russia getting back on its feet.

      So, I think I’ll wait at least until the results of the next US presidential election before I start building my underground resistance movement, if you don’t mind.

      In the meanwhile, I’m a bit more likely to worry about the religious crackpots of the East (as opposed to your religious crackpots of the West), who have declared that they will chop off my head because I don’t want to spend my life obeying their imaginary god-creature…

    55. Sorry the link did not work. Must be something wrong with the U.S. to Finland cable or those pesky red dots. Anyway, you are right that the Cheney bunch is not capable of pulling of some kind of world domination plan (although they might like to), but they have demonstrated the capability to cause enormous havoc around the world. What I meant by taking the U.S. into the abyss is that as a result of all this crackpot adventureism, the U.S. will run out of money to pay for all this, bankrupt the country and threaten world economic stability. Bankrupting the U.S. Federal Reserve is another stated goal of the Republicans. They call it “starving the beast”. The idea is to privatize all government services thereby becomming more efficient. You are fortunate to live in an EU country like Finland. When the U.S. economy goes into atailspin your standard of living wil only decline by 5-10% vs. 20-30% in the U.S.

    56. Wooshkaboom says:

      The other link not working seems to have been just a case of the URL not being completely in the hyperlink… well, anyway.

      Might be that the US government is actually trying to pull the same trick against Al-Qaeda (et al.) that they toppled the Soviet Union with, i.e. exhaust the opponents wealth by getting them into a military arming/conflict race. A foolish tactic against what are essentially guerrilla groups, but then again, conservatism never has been about NEW ideas…

      I don’t know if I’m actually really all that lucky to live in Finland - lucky to live in the EU, perhaps, but the taxation in Finland is so steep that the average buying capacity of the Finnish person is only half of that of, for example, the average citizen of Germany. Especially the gas prices are pretty bad here - if you pay a dollar per gallon in the US, the price in Finland will be at least one euro per LITRE - i.e. over four times as expensive! Also, we pay about 50% from our wages as taxes, AND everything that’s on sale here usually has 22% VAT + possibly import taxes or other taxes stocked on top of each other. Furthermore, if you get inheritance, they tax you for 40-50% of whatever you get, and so on, and so on… Tax upon tax upon tax upon tax… that’s what Finland is essentially about.

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