91 Kurgan City

Kurgan City

Posted on September 9, 2012 by team

How different are Russian provincial cities from the capital? We decided to go further from Moscow and visit one of them.

Kurgan is an important economic, scientific and cultural centre of Ural, a large transport node, it is listed among other historic cities of Russia.

City population is 334 thousand people (as per 2010).

In Russia Kurgan is famous for its clinic and apparatuses of Ilizarov (It is used in surgical procedures to lengthen or reshape limb bones; to treat complex and/or open bone fractures; and in cases of infected non-unions of bones that are not amenable with other techniques), for its sportsmen and its infantry fighting vehicle BMP-3.

Some yards

From here starts the road to another city – Omsk.

Some houses

“Adidas” seems to be a popular brand…


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91 Responses to “Kurgan City”

  1. Jim-Bob says:

    I love the prevalence of backyard gardening in Russia! Americans would do well to do this too.

    • Tiger says:

      Elect Putin and all will have left is backyard gardening while having a PhD in Quantum-Physics, while the Mexican gangs, getting money from the government, will drive in their Bentleys in Washington shooting in the air and raping your girls without getting touched by the policy, because all of a sudden their are being assigned to a special CIA division with plenipotentiary powers. Because this will be a sacrifice to a higher goal. This will be known as the “Detroitization” of the US.

    • Jeebs says:

      Allot of people still do just because you don’t hear about it on mainstream news media doesn’t mean they don’t trust me they do

  2. Tiger says:

    Yes, Putin´s plan in action. The terrorist capital of Grozny looks like Dubai and Russian cities with hard working people look like the Wehrmacht has recently run over them. With “Russian” oligarchs bringing all the money to the UK and Cyprus it is natural that nothing is left for cities like Kurgan, where engineers and scientist earn 300 USD a month. If Vo

  3. Tiger says:

    Yes, Putin´s plan in action. The terrorist capital of Grozny looks like Dubai and Russian cities with hard working people look like the Wehrmacht has recently run over them. With “Russian” oligarchs bringing all the money to the UK and Cyprus it is natural that nothing is left for cities like Kurgan, where engineers and scientist earn 300 USD a month. If Vowa does not immediately change his wrong policies he will be deposed like the ailing Yeltsin. Looking at this pictures and knowing the amount of resources and the amount of corruption, Putin has failed big time.

    • vorontsevich says:

      During his first eight years in office, the economy bounced back from crisis, saw GDP increase six-fold (72% in PPP), poverty has decreased by 50%, and average monthly salaries increase from $80 to $640. Putin has really failed big time.

      “knowing”. You really shouldn’t use that word. You can’t really relate to it at all.

      • (r)evolutionist says:

        Who do you like in the U.S. Prez race? (are you gonna tell me “None of the above?”)

        • vorontsevich says:

          I really don’t know much about the US presidential race, except that on side is Obama (I dont really understand what hes done wrong for people to dislike/hate him, but then again, thats none of my business) and on the other hand you have Mitt Romney (IIRC, he called Russia “the US’s greatest geopolitical foe”, thats gonna do wonders for Russia-US relations). That combined with the fact that Romney can probably see Russia from his house, I’d prefer if Obama won. But again, thats not my candidates, not my election, not my country, heck not even my side of the globe. All up to you.

          Feel free to disagree.

          • (r)evolutionist says:

            Thanks; just wondering. Romney did say that (strange). But being pious and wealthy he is as detached from reality as can be. What Obama has done wrong is to “try” to curtail corporate/financial greed. The vast majority of Americans have been brainwashed by Sam Walton’s men and the Koch Brothers into believing that greed is a religious directive from “the Big Man.”

      • Tiger says:

        Bla-bla-bla. Yes thank you for a salary of 600 Dollars and prices like Europe in a country with the biggest oil and gas deposits. Putin is the same old commie lunatic dreaming of playing big geopolitical games and hosting olympic games when the Russian cities fall apart. He is a communist loser, we need someone without that past who really cleanses Russia of those elements. What did he do? The oligarchs are still there, the working conditions are awful, Lenin is nor buried and now we have millions of muslim “guest workers”, who BTW rape and kill Russians on a daily basis, although there are enough Russians out of job. Thank you Putin! He should join his daughter and go to Korea.

        • vorontsevich says:

          Alright. You try out for president then. Put up some comedy performances like Zhironovsky, and Ill vote for you. Once you get elected, then you can proceed to get rid of the oligarchs, crack down on the mob bosses, being criminals to justice, imprison all wrongdoers, eliminate corruption, provide jobs for all, give everyone high wages, rebuild whole cities, and also apparently kick out all the non ethnic Russians. Does that just about cover your manifesto?

          • Tiger says:

            Obviously restoring law and order in the country is something terrible to you! Sure your father is not with the FSB or the caucasian mafia? Maybe a relative of Berezovsky?
            And returning “guest workers” in times where the own people barely find employment is not really a fascist manifest, is it? How about Israel? They “kicked out” 50000 refugees from Sudan, because their Shar-party interior minister said that these people are visible on the street and are a threat to the “jewish nature” of the state of Israel (which BTW a commandment by the basic constitutional laws). Is that the “racism” you are looking for?

            • vorontsevich says:

              Lol. My entire family is ethnic Russian, so I’d say the chances of any of us being with the caucasian mob are about as high as the chances of you being our next great ruler. And I’ll ignore your jab at my father.

              Just because Israel does something doesn’t mean Russia has to. And maybe “the own people” might find employment if they actually worked for it. They don’t have any higher education, and yet they complain because they don’t get the high-paying jobs. (BTW, the unemployment stats are around 7%, which is a lot better than previous years, but what does it matter to you, you don’t live here).

              • Tiger says:

                Yes, and this particular city looks like a real boomtown. Yet you see it with your eyes and you don´t see nothing at all. And 7% is not really low. As long as there are 7% of the workforce out of job there is no need to invite more labourers from abroad. And if the workforce is not qualified enough, then train them. But that is a concept that required a professional administration and the political will to care about the problems on the ground.

                • vorontsevich says:

                  Lol. A very recent OECD report says that 54% of Russian from 25-64 of age have academic degrees, which saying something.

                  And I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the world is in an economic slump right now, that affects jobs and salaries. Your beloved Germany has ~5.5% unemployment rates, Russia has not 7%, but 5.5% rates as well. Which is an impressive stat.

                  • Tiger says:

                    Every unemployed German has much more money at his disposal than an average employed Russian, think about this. And the “degrees” from Russia…half of them may be authentical, but the other half is actually bought or worthless, because they still teach the old soviet stuff. Ramzan Kadirov has a degree in law and business from the University of Machachkala for instance :)! I can imagine how much more such “lawyers”, “mathematicians” or “engineers” the country has. With such “academics” you will get nowhere. And yes I forgot, everybody who has money goes to a foreign doctor in the large cities or goes abroad for treatment for instance. The Russian celebreties go to the US, Switzerland or Germany if they want to give birth to children, because they don´t trust the Russian “doctors”.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      Sound like you’ve really found a new flag. (don’t tell me you still don’t get it. On the off chance that you don’t, google “if you are ashamed to stand by your own colors, you had better seek another flag meaning”)

                    • Tiger says:

                      No, I found no new flag. I am just stating the criticism this country badly needs. You can shout “Russia Stong!111″ all the time, but it won´t make this country a better place. I am just making up my mind about what needs to be done and I think that this the very true and sensible patriotism, and not this sheeplike regime-support for KGBs, criminals and oligarchs who run the whole show and who enjoy riches beyong your imagination.

      • Tiger says:

        How does this picture correspond with the plans to host olympic games, the football world cup and to build a permanent base on the moon? This is so ridiculous and such a shame! Invest the money in your people and your cities! There are 500 billions USD alone in the federal funds. There is the same amout going abroad every year! That is why almost every city ten kilometers from Pieter and Moscow look like this! There are no investments, local business get no support, there are no loans and no programs to change this.

    • Dmitry says:

      Putin policies has nothing to do with it. It’s a people factor.

      • Tiger says:

        Come to Russia and I will show you my people factor! The money is wasted on global powerprojection and in calming virulent minorities and the Russians work hard and pay for this nonsense. Go work in a Nickel mine, where the noxious fumes kill you in your fourtees, just because there is no enviromental and labour law protecting the people. The Russians die at work in the mines and the others drive AMGs on Moscow roads.
        But you are right, there is a people factor involved: all the riches of the country don´t belong to Russians, but to others. They siphon off the money and transfer it to Israel, Qatar and Switzerland.

        • No Mame says:

          I wouldn’t go with you to anywhere. Much less live in Russia for a while with morons like you.
          Before saying a word, you or your pals would slaughter me becuase I’m not Russian. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s how you sound.

  4. whislteblower says:

    what a dirty city, everywhere mess and garbage. Here im smell the stench of sweat.

  5. Daniel says:

    There are plenty of burned-out, used -up cities like that in the West. The whole world will look like this in time. This is the refuse of industrialization. It doesn’t matter whether it’s capitalist or communist industrialization, when a place is used-up, the jobs and factories, move on.

  6. Buratino says:

    Tiger tells the truth 100%. Russia is becoming like the West where minorities are in command and have everything done to satisfy them at cost to majority. Oligarchs are almost all from one particular minority in Russia. Their names look Russian to foreigners, but they are not Russian!. Russians in provinces live in poor conditions because of the oligarch scum and their puppet in the Kremlin. Putin should wake up and see who he is in bed with, before there is another revolution…

    • Tiger says:

      Yes, now the try tell us in TV that there is no Russian nation at all, but we are all “hybrids”. The have recently introduced the word “Rosjanin”, which encompasses everybody with a Russian passport. But tell me how many Russians are living in Dagestan or Chechnya? How many Russian are seeking to get out of Kabardino-Balkaria and Cherkessia? Why is there a Republic Adygea in Russia, with an Adyghe as a governor, when the Adyghes actually make up less than 25%? All the minorities do have their own republics even within Russia, but Russia again is for everybody. The USSR has just changed its branding and its borders. Uzbekistan for Uzbeks, Azerbajdzan for Azeris, but Russia for everybody – that is the new slogan. It is an ongoing genocide and Putin and his entourage gives a rat´s ass. Try to say something in TV against Kadirov and you get killed in no time!

  7. vacuumcleaner says:

    in the UK we did a book called “crap towns”. After all the hype about the Olympics in Londonistan it would be great for the rest of the world to know how the remaining 52 million people live on the island

    • Tiger says:

      Yet there is a difference. In You crap-towns you have all the foreigners and the real Brits live in nice places. In Russia it is the other way around. The average Russian lives with his family on 30qm and the others do have their own houses with gardens.

      • Carlitos says:

        Russia has grown a lot in the last decade. My contry Mexico has NOT grown at all in 20 years!

        See, we enjoy a kind of archaic Capitalism and we have the Richest crony oligarchs in the world, Crony-Media Monopoly (well, monopolies in every sector)… All with more than half of the population in poverty. (And poverty keeps growing). Our government is a corrupted useless US pawn.

        To me, Russia has a much brighter future than my savage capitalist country.

        My point is: If you really want Capitalism, my country is it’s ugly true face.

        • Tiger says:

          Russia is as capitalistic and oligarchic as Mexico. In fact were are on the very same level. Yet Mexico has a better demography and less national and inter-religious problems than Russia. If things go well for You, in the next 20 years California and Texas will be practically Mexican states within the US. So you will conquer back what you lost in the 19th century sooner or later. In Russia it is the other way around.

          • vorontsevich says:

            Wow. You are such an optimist. I shud really learn from you.

            • Tiger says:

              No, but you “war hero” could learn to open your eyes and use your brain once in a while instead of believing all the TV stories. It is really astonishing, you look at the pictures above and yet you see that this is not problem? Interesting!

              • vorontsevich says:

                Yes. I see all these pictures, and yes it is a problem. But I don’t think for a moment that everyone lives likes this or every city looks like this. Maybe if you came to my town, you’d see that things aren’t the same everywhere.

                • Tiger says:

                  Really? In the country with the largest deposits of natural resouces NOT EVERYBODY has to live like this? I am amazed…tell me more about this!

          • Carlitos says:

            -We don’t care about demography. We are all mixed. You can see a very united family with “white”, brown or even black, and all the colors in the middle. However the culture is the same and very strong.

            -About Religion, 90% is catholic, and prone to be abused by priests. Corrupted Catholic Church bosses messing in politics and big biz has always been a serious problem here. And it will remain so.

            -We don’t think about California and Texas they way you mentioned. About 15 million FLED the country in desperation.

            My reply bottom is that in Russia, at least you’re growing, slowly but constantly. There’s a recovery in numbers at least. We don’t. We’ll keep exporting desperate people by the millions.

            I hope you NEVER reach that point.

            • Tiger says:

              No we already exported millions and left even more behind in newly independent states where they are treated like illegals.

              • Carlitos says:

                That’s past tense. Mine is future tense.

                • Tiger says:

                  Best of luck then to Mexico. I hope you can avoid such a downturn.

                  • Carlitos says:

                    That’s the point of my comment. Eventhough it will take a while to match Western Europe, Russia is fixing up it’s problems, with no Greece like overheating/overreaching. Russia looks promising in the long run. We aren’t. That’s how it looks when you don’t fix your problems.

  8. vacuumcleaner says:

    abroad it’s always the same: France = Paris, Russia = Moscow, America = New York etc

  9. (r)evolutionist says:

    I like the provinces. The bloated megalopolises are full of arrogance, wealth, megachurches, politicians, noise, etc. The provincial towns have the look of realism/naturalism (as opposed to the megalopolis’ veneer of superiority).

  10. Carlitos says:

    Looks a lot like any Mexican Town. Except for the Russian calmed hot girls and our drug cartel battles! Now that the most corrupt party “won” with frauds last election in Mexico, Russia is (and will be) much better!!

    ¡Mil Gracias Felipe!!

    • Tiger says:

      Do not be fooled. The crime scene in Russia is pretty rough too – maybe not as hard as in Mexico, but for sure much more virulent than in other European countries. In fact crime syndicates from the “near abroad” and some autonomous republics like most prominent Chechnya come in and infiltrate the legitimate businesses. They come with 30 armed guys and force you to hand over the control of the firm to them and all you may get is you naked life. Or they come with forged documents from the corrupt courts of their homelands claming your business. Than you will have to proof that these are forgeries which usuall is a problem, since that will depend on the very same agencies that issued this fraudulent papers. This is how it works. And then there are corrupt Russian officials and governers who always want their cut from your business, especially in the provinces.

      • vorontsevich says:

        Just because you got raped by 30 armed guys from Chechnya doesn’t mean that everyone has the same experience. You know that right? Lol.

        • Tiger says:

          I don´t know where you got this fantasy from, but it wasn´t me allegedly served in Khankala (as a cook?). Maybe that is the source of your affection for these guys…I am just referring to what happens on the ground.

          • vorontsevich says:

            And what do you think I’m referring to? Things that happen in the air?

            I was first a tank driver, and then squad support guy, but I’ve been told I’m a pretty good cook. :D

            As for what you think it’s affection, its called basic morality. You don’t “kick people out” just because the Israelis do, or because of Yugoslavia.

            • Tiger says:

              How about the moral affection for your own kind first?

              • vorontsevich says:

                What exactly is “my own kind”? Most of the Chechens I met have Russian citizenship and passports, and were quite good people. When I was in college, a lot of my friends were Uzbeks, and there was nothing wrong with them. Unlike you, I consider almost everyone who has a russian passport AND lives here to be a Russian, as in of my own kind. Unlike you, I don’t prefer ethnicity.

                And yes, yes, I know, when the wild barbaric Chechen hordes come invading my “milk-farm town”, I’ll change my mind. Not.

                • Tiger says:

                  A passport is a document. I have three different of them, so what? And I also have friends from 22 different nations and almost all relevent religions. But that still does not make me think that this is a working solution for the world.
                  And if you don´t know what is “your own kind”, ask the Uzbeks or the Chechens, for sure they know 100% what is theirs. It is a pity, but your mentality is a product of 70 years of soviet reeducation and nationality policy. I reall pity you, since it is not your fault. Good luck Russia, I might never see you again.

                  • vorontsevich says:

                    Well first of all. Good riddance. “Good luck Russia, I might never see you again.” Pls, I implore you, make sure you never do.

                    “It is a pity, but your mentality is a product of 70 years of soviet reeducation and nationality policy. I reall pity you, since it is not your fault.” Lol. 70 years of soviet re-education. Lol. I wasn’t even in my teens when the USSR broke up. You’re the one who’s convinced that the best way to solve the problems in the caucasus, is to just give them independence (BTW, that worked out real great from 1997 to 1999), and lock the borders and turn it into a ghetto (that works great between Israel and Palestine).

                    BTW, I echo your feeling. I really pity you. Nah, just kidding.

                    • Tiger says:

                      I said that, because people with your mindset will be the architects of Russias final undoing. Ten years more of this policy and Russia will be in a civil war, from the Volga down to the Caucasus.
                      As of the Ichekeria independence in the 90s. That was no real independence, since the Chechens were keeping the Russian passports, moving throughout Russia spreading terror and crime, and the borders were not really closed (controlling four roads is such a hard task for our glorious and competent red army, I know).
                      As for you, you may not have seen the USSR really, but your environment and your teachers obviously have and that must have had a big impression on you, since you constantly refuse to dare making up your own mind with your own eyes. Better believe the Russian television and the stories of your superiors.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      Lol. People with your mindset are what caused all the trouble in the caucasus. “Russia will be in a civil war” Lol. So who will be fighting in the civil war, huh? 10 years from now, we shall see (atleast according to you).

                      “As of the Ichekeria independence in the 90s. That was no real independence” Lol. Isn’t that what you want Russia to do? Give the Chechens independence (real or not)? And BTW, the Chechens were independent from Russia, as in they were not under Russias (or to be precise, the military’s) will. Just because the kept Russian passports don’t mean they weren’t “independent”.

                      “Borders were not really closed” “controlling four roads is such a hard task for our glorious and competent red army” Aah, the irony. You mock the military and yet you want it (or atleast consider it capable of) “lock down the border” yet again, and devastate any intruders with airstrikes? Lol. Make up ur mind.

                      And BTW, have you ever been to Chechnya? If you had, you might notice that the biggest hindrance are not “four roads” but mountains, which in case you didn’t know, is one of the toughest terrain to operate on, let alone seek out insurgents (which is why they are the only hiding spots left for the main insurgency).

                      “since you constantly refuse to dare making up your own mind with your own eyes.” ironic coming from some guy who was apparently raised somewhere in or around Krasnodar, and then spent most of his life in Germany (and yet somehow, you still have “first hand” information about life IN Russia. lol)

                      “Russian television” Lol. It’s called my life, I dare say I’d know more about it than you or the TV crews. But, I suppose it’s easy for you to say that, isn’t it. After all, in your eyes, Russia hasn’t changed since the 1990’s or whenever you were in Russia last.

                    • Tiger says:

                      The borders between Chechnya and Stavropolski Krai are not really that mountainous.
                      And independence from each other is a splitting of nations which implies that they do not keep the passports. Or do the Estonians still possess the Russian citizenship? No, of course not, neither can they successfully apply for one (only the Russians who are left there with their grey stateless passports can do that).
                      And about the army, if they are not capable of securing borders, then they are underqualified and useless. Of course they could do this if there is a political will and if there are new general officers. But in its current state it just enough to scare off the Georgians…if they don´t start selling their weapons again for bottles of vodka.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      Securing borders is the Border Guards job. Securing internal borders is the militia and the MVD’s job. The military is there to defend the territory encompassed within the borders, not the actual border.

                      “he borders between Chechnya and Stavropolski Krai are not really that mountainous.” Who ever was talking about Stavropol?

                      “And independence from each other is a splitting of nations which implies that they do not keep the passports.” An “independence” which lasted two years, and saw sharia law implemented and yet you wonder why a good number of Chechens still has Russian passports when the first troops came after the Dagestani War.

                      I’d pay you to go into any officers quarters (preferably a VDV one) and say to them, that they are under qualified and useless. Lol.

                      Political will huh? The military has two re-armament programs underway, with a total combined worth of close to a trillion dollars going to be spent.

                      “But in its current state” Lol. First, what would you know about the military’s current state? More “first-hand” information? Lol. Second, units do maneuvers and exercises many times a year, individual troops get much better (a much more universal) training, and the new NCO corps training is underway. So, tell me more about about the current state of the military.

                    • Tiger says:

                      If that is true what you say about the military than guarding and sealing off the border against an independent north caucasus should be a piece of cake for them. So your argument that the border is impossible to guard is invalid.
                      And of course if you give independence to the Dags, Chechens and Ingush, the longest border to be patrolled will be that on of the Stavropolsi Krai and that of Ossetia (and of course Kalmykia, but that is desert anyway.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      Again, can you read? “Securing borders is the Border Guards job. Securing internal borders is the militia and the MVD’s job. The military is there to defend the territory encompassed within the borders, not the actual border.”

                      Guarding the borders of an independent state is different from guarding the internal borders of a one of your own provinces. First, if it was independent then you’d only have a presence on one side of the frontier, otherwise you’d have army, MVD and Border Guard forces everywhere (as in on both sides of the border), which makes securing the border a lot easier.

                      And I never said anything about “the border being impossible to guard”. But funny you should assume that.

                      “the longest border to be patrolled” Lol. You really know nothing about military matters of even basic topography do you? Guarding borders isn’t necessarily about the length of the border (of course, if it is long you use more troops, and vice versa), but its more about topography (and hydrography for water bodies). A mountain is one of the hardest terrains to operate on. If its a whole mountain range (i.e; the Caucasus) then that task becomes even more difficult. The military and other forces do a great job at containing most of the insurgents, but they can’t do everything.

                    • Tiger says:

                      Yes I know that mountains are harder to patrol than steppe or desert, but this is not the case because the northern borders of Chechnya are not mountainous. If you would have been there you would have known that.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      I’m not talking about just the “northen border”, lol. I’m talking about all of the caucasus. In case you haven’t noticed, that WHOLE REGION is MOUNTAINOUS, not just the “northern border” (by northern border I’m sure you mean the MAN-MADE border between Stravropol-Chechnya and Dagestan-Chechnya). Lol, I’m talking about the NATURAL formations, such as, I don’t know, maybe, MOUNTAINs. Maybe if you had actually been in Chechnya you might have noticed that.

  11. John says:

    Looks like the parts of South Africa where the poor blacks live.

    • Tiger says:

      Don´t tell this to vorontsevich…he still thinks that this is a superpower with a high prestige and that this is the best government ever.

      • vorontsevich says:

        Lol. I think its cute that you should think that. I never said anything about Russia still being a superpower. It maybe a power player on the world stage, but a superpower it’s not.

        Plus, I never said anything about this being the best government ever, but again, its funny that you should assume that. This isn’t a bad government like Yeltsins, and yes, this is the best government I’ve ever experienced, because I’m only 33 (I’m not over a hundred years old like you, to be able to remember the good old days when those absolutely wonderful people known as the Tsars were around).

        • Tiger says:

          I am 32 just FYI. And yes it might be slightly better than the gerontocracy of the USSR and yes it might even beat the alcoholic Yelstin by miles, but it is still not a really good government. It is the same old story of windfall profits from natural resources and painting the rusty places until it all falls apart again. Sometimes just “good” is not good enough. When Russia has the living standard of the average EU citizen, than we can afford a just mediocre government, but until than it is still a long and winding road…for a country that has enough resources to be easliy among the top ten economies (by GDP per capita). And until then, there is no time for playing even a 2nd tier role in global affairs (Russia is ignored anyway) and no time for expensive prestige projects.

          • vorontsevich says:

            What is with you and natural resources? In previous comments you lament about Russias energy industry and the economy being largely dependent on it, now you rant that just because Russia has large oil and gas reserves everyone should be like Saudis. Lol. Most of the oil reserves are located in pretty harsh terrains and climates. Maybe if you went somewhere else, outside of Krasnodar, you might have noticed that. Lol. If you really want everyone to share in the nations natural wealth, why don’t you go into the mines then?

            How exactly is this not a good government? Sure it has its bad moments, but it wouldn’t have been in power for 12 years, if it was bad. And don’t start with the fake elections bull***t. When’s the last time you’ve been to Russia? When’s the last time you’ve been to anywhere outside of Krasnodar? You might see that things aren’t nearly half as bad as you make them out to be.

            BTW, I wouldn’t call Russia ignored. Look at the west sweating because Russia (AND China) aren’t willing to saction UN action against Syria. Of course, they could always say “screw the UN” and go ahead with their “liberation” but still. Plus, what prestige projects? You don’t mean the Olympics and the world cup do you? Sigh.

            • Tiger says:

              If I were you, the last thing about to worry would be the situation Syria. At least the Syrian government is not exporting thousands of orphans to richer countries despite the civil war. Obvioulsly you are happy that the west is making a fortune with selling Russian billionaires luxury stuff and real estate while you and your people have living conditions and life expectations like in India (China is already ahead of Russia) and criminal gangs ruling the business world. And for sure, I have travelled and seen more than you, and that´s for sure.

              • vorontsevich says:

                Maybe if you ever come here, I’ll put you up at my place. See how much like India our (and since you mentioned me) my living conditions are. You have a serious problem with stereotypes and prejudices. I’ve said before and I love to say it again. This isn’t Krasnodar. Lol.

                You may have traveled more than I ever have. I’ve been to Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan. Not a particularly impressive list but I also went to one other country. Malaysia. Maybe if you went there you’d see that people of different ethnicity and religions can (and over there, do) live together.

                • Tiger says:

                  Yes I see how they live together:
                  Ukraine: even the uniates, catholics and orthodox are quarrelling over the churches in the western part, discriminating each other (allthough they are all christians)
                  Belarus: has no sizeable religious or ethnic minorities
                  Armenia: Karabach rings a bell I guess? Shiite Azeris vs christian Armenians? No?
                  Tajikistan: you must be kiddin! They islamists drove out all the non-muslims in the early 90s, and that was a real bloodshed!
                  Kazahkstan: yes, a country were Russians are harassed all the time and the government tries to attract muslims from China to raise the islamic proportion of the ethnic composition. BTW, they will close the Russian schools.
                  Malaysia: Malaysia is an islamic country with a large Hindu und Chinese minority. People live seperate and cannot even intermarry (sharia law is in effect when it comes to marriages). Clashes and progroms are frequent and the situation is getting from bad to worse (making the Chinese and Hindus leave).
                  Sorry,but that list did not serve your argumentation.

                  • vorontsevich says:

                    Lol. That list was that of countries I’ve been to, not countries that are examples of good multi-ethnic populations, except for Malaysia.

                    You are hopelesly off about Malaysia. The number of Chinese are increasing every day. And where do you pull out these stories about Malaysia. Sharia law is not in effect in Malaysia. You’d find bars and nightclubs that can be accessed by anyone. You’d find prostitutes lined up along certain streets. “Clashes and progroms are frequent and the situation is getting from bad to worse (making the Chinese and Hindus leave)” That is some bull***t. The number of Chinese are actually increasing (and not because of birth, lol).

                    • Tiger says:

                      So why did they then lift the state of emergency, that was announced in 1969 due to ethnic conflicts between the Chinese and the Malays, just in 2011? Perhaps google the 13th of May incident.
                      Maybe that has also something to do with the fact that it is governed by islamist parties ever since and that it is one of the states that has never recognized the state of Israel for instance? Maybe also google the word “Bumiputra”, a set of laws to ensure the dominance of the Malays/muslims in the country against the Chinese and Tamils.
                      To identify citizens that qualify for the status of Bumiputra, Malaysia requires citizens to carry a national identification card called MyKad. Smart Cards identify citizens by race and religion. Any Western Malaysian citizen apparently can opt into the system simply by proclaiming him/herself to being Muslim.
                      Under Article 160 of the Constitution of Malaysia a Malay is defined as being:

                      – a Malaysian citizen born to a Malaysian citizen who professes to be a Muslim – habitually speaks the Malay language – adheres to Malay customs – and is domiciled in Malaysia or Singapore

                      If this would be a Russian law, you would call it facism obviously :).
                      BTW Article 3 of the constitution also provides that Islamic law (sharia law) is a state law matter with the exception for the Federal Territories of Malaysia. This applies in most cases to the muslims of the country, although some provinces adopted sharia criminal law as well. So there is no freedom of religion in the sense that a muslim can officially convert to another religion.
                      Maybe you should not only check out the bars and brothels if you get around, you would see much more(and brothels, were usually poor girls from India or eastern Europe including Russia, so infidels, do work are not the benchmark for enlightenment of the islamic world).

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      Lol. You talk about events that happened in the 60;s and 70’s like it was yesterday or today. What excatly is the problem with having an Islamic party in charge of an majority Muslim country? Lol.

                      Refer to article 11 of the Malaysian constitution. (freedom of religion). The shariah courts rule over Muslims only. Article 152 (free to use any language, but Malay is the official language). Bumiputra is hardly ever enforced. Maybe if you spent some time (as opposed to just googling it) you might know that. Lol. (Malays control only half the economy).

                      “a Malaysian citizen born to a Malaysian citizen who professes to be a Muslim – habitually speaks the Malay language – adheres to Malay customs – and is domiciled in Malaysia or Singapore” Thats the requirement for Bumiputra, not for Malay citizenship. Its sort of like the old Soviet passports having a race field.

                      “Maybe you should not only check out the bars and brothels if you get around, you would see much more” Well, I was there for a reason. I had just left the army and I was looking for work in the private sector. I wanted to work abroad for while, but the missus was fussy, so that didn’t work out.

                      “were usually poor girls from India or eastern Europe” Lol. The vast majority of the “girls” there are Chinese. Nice try.

                      “If this would be a Russian law, you would call it facism obviously” Actually, I would welcome it. It’s your thinking that all Chechens or Dags are bad, and that they should be “divorced” thats bordering on fascism.

                    • Tiger says:

                      What 60s or 70s? The state of emergency was lifted in 2011! The rest are quotations from the constitution. But interesting, you would welcome a law that states that a Russian citizen has to be orthodox, speak the Russian language and has to live in Russia proper or the ex-USSR? Well, then please don´t lecture me no more about your fake “tolerance”.
                      This of course would also mean that no muslim could ever obtain the Russian citizenship. Better you don´t share your convictions with your boss.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      “But interesting, you would welcome a law that states that a Russian citizen has to be orthodox, speak the Russian language and has to live in Russia proper or the ex-USSR?” Lol. Can you read? If yes, then read this again. “Thats the requirement for Bumiputra, not for Malay citizenship. Its sort of like the old Soviet passports having a race field.” To sum it up, it defines an ETHNIC MALAY, NOT A MALAYSIAN CITIZEN. Yeesh.

                      “The rest are quotations from the constitution.” Have you ever heard of the term “arm-chair general”? You are ideally suited to be one.

                      “What 60s or 70s? The state of emergency was lifted in 2011!” And the Chechen campaign was over long before 2009, in fact by the end of 2000. But the campaign was officially ended only in April 2009. Try again.

                    • Tiger says:

                      A Bumiputra is a privilleged Malaysian citizen, and that privilege is tied to the religion, in this case islam. So citing Malaysia as a beacon of tolerance and harmony is misguided.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      You might have a point if those “privileged Malaysians” actually got any preferential treatment. I spent seven weeks, mostly in the capital Kuala Lumpur, and one thing I noticed that most ethnic Malays were living relatively simple lives, while others (especially the Chinese) were having things better off. Try again.

                      Trying to brush of any evidence that people of different cultures and/or religions is just plain stupid. Besides, you claim to be a Russian living in Germany, so you’re hardly in a position to lecture about different cultures and religions. And its rich of you to be opposed to “tolerance” regarding Chechens because a bunch of them killed Russians. You live in Germany, they are the ones that are responsible for the deaths of close to 30 million Soviets, but for you the only thing that would probably matter would be the ethnic Russians. The ethnic Ukrainians, Belarussians, etc.. wouldn’t matter or would atleast take second precedence.

                    • Tiger says:

                      I am living in Germany because I have to be responsible for my family if there is no legal way to earn the money somewhere else. Besides, Germany gave me a free higher education when Russia didn´t (because the money was disappearing in the corrupt government structures). Sorry, but I also have to see what is best for me and my family. Besides, what I learn here I could not have learned in Russia. When things get better there, I can come back with useful experiences and help to improve things. This way I could help Russia more.
                      As for Germany and tolerance. You would be suprised how much Germans are actually fed up with that. We have here people from all over the world. We do not have problems with Russians, Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Philippinos, Chinese or Colombians. But we do have problems with Kurds, Albanians, Turks and Arabs. Where they live you cannot have a normal life as they drive everybody else off. You sould really come here and see and then compare this with Piete or Moscow. The same picture, but just fill in other muslim nations. In France it is the same thing as well as in the UK or Scandinavia and even Switerland.
                      So bottom line is: It is not about nations, but about culture and religion. Some things just don´t go together. Maybe that doesn´t come to your mind when you stay in Borisoglebsk all the time.
                      And with regards to the 2nd WW. The communist have killed more people than Hitler. The revolution, the hunger periods, the red terror…you name it. And then you also have to count approx. 100 million abortions between the after war period and today. A country that does tolerate that does not need to mourn the other dead.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      Can you ever stick to one argument? I’m talking about the people killed by your beloved Germany, and then you rant of with “100 million killed by communists” (thats over a third of the post-war population).

                      “Maybe that doesn´t come to your mind when you stay in Borisoglebsk all the time.” Maybe because you come from Krasnodar, you might not know this, but people of different religions and cultures CAN and DO live together. But if you forever keep on antagonizing them, thats never gonna happen.

                    • Tiger says:

                      Yes, and if the 30 million deaths from the war count, then how about 130 million death toll from the commies? That is ridiculous! Or has the “red army” washed your brains alltogether while you were driving an armored tractor?
                      Maybe it would have been better if Moscow fell and the Commies dead. The Russians would have kicked the Germans out anyway, and then along with the commies. At least they would not have killed much more people than the Communists (and then at least it would have been clear who the enemies were).

                      As for Germany today, it is a good example where Russia can still learn tons of things. And that is no secret. And it has successfully left behind its troubled past, unlike Russia.

                      And about Krasnodar, it already is Caucasus my dear. There you have all different nations living peacfully, except those who are muslims. They cause trouble and they all want to secede. Of course, lets say 1-5% are not thining that way, but the majority of them is. No matter if we talk about Dags, Chechens, Balkars or Adyghe. They are even now staging protests about Sochi 2014 because they say that all the Russian black sea coast belongs to them. There you have your “brethren”.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      So to sum it all up, you hate Muslims. Lol. And here I was thinking it was just race, all along.

                      You might wanna watch out though. Look what happened when someone made a movie mocking their prophet. Wonder what will happen when they get a touch of your Islam-phobia. Lol.

                      I’d say you’re in the right place, but at the wrong time. 70 years earlier and you’d have fit in perfectly with your Nazi friends.

                    • vorontsevich says:

                      “they would not have killed much more people” Are you insane? Have you heard of something called “Lebensraum”? To put it simply, it involved the eventual extermination of all Slavs they could reach, judging by your protracted “russian supermacy” I’d say you fall under that category. If it hadn’t been for the red army that you mock, you and I wouldn’t be alive today to have this “discussion”.

                      That “armored tractor” is a 46 ton tank. How well would all those sophisticated German factories work, if I drove my “tractor” through it, lol.

                      “130 million death toll from the commies” As you so kindly pointed out, “That is ridiculous!” Wherever do you get those figures, which if true, should mean that one of every third person was killed. Lol. You’d think that someone might have noticed that. Of course, if I don’t agree with you, it’s always some form of brainwashing isn’t it? Lol. You are a sad, sad little man.

          • America says:

            Vorontsevich is quite amusing! lol

            • vorontsevich says:

              Still a long way to go to catch up to you, though. Pity, it looks like the color photo and the terrorist student discussions have died out. Made for some amusing reads.

            • Asmodeus says:

              “America”, thanks for the laughs. 4 years after this, your embarrassments in this site are even funnier

  12. Fred Flintstone says:

    The childish “arguments” from this kid ‘America’, are some of the most epic fails I have read. His persistent place as the funniest guy in ER is undisputed.

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