The church on the picture above was the biggest cathedral in Moscow and in all Russia in 19th century. It’s construction took fifty years to be fully completed. Then the communists came. They had a holy war against all the religions in Russia so they blew up thousands of small and big churches. In 1931 the order was issued to destroy this pearl of Russian architecture too. It took only a few hours to destroy it.
A lost treasure.
You are correct.. What do you think of the new one?
Beautiful. The new one looks like an exact duplicate.
It does look very grand, but I would rather still see the original..
So would I, unfortunately the replica will have to do for now. But perhaps in the generations to come it will regain some of what was lost.
Sheeple must pray.
wow…so sad…Russia has such beautiful architecture…and they do this?
by the way….third
I live in simmilar post-communism country and the same thing happened here. And during the last war all sides were blowing up each others religius objects… shame… shame…
P.S. I am faithless but still know what is a precious and this church in moscow was exactley that…
Don’t confused communism with Russia. Communism is great, it’s a utopia, and ban of all organized religion is one of the better things communism brings.
Look at US. If not for the backwards Bible thumpers we would be 100 years ahead of where we are now. Just look at the Koran thumpers, they are 500 years behind.
But neither communism nor ban of religion really works when dealing with large masses of primitive population like Russia or US. It only works for smaller closed countries, and there are a few examples in Western Europe.
Ehh… Amerikan…
Give us 1 example of a communistic success in western europe, hey I make it more easy name 1 successful communist country.
And hey communism is a religion also… Hey if everyone was equally rich (or poor if you believe in communism) then everything will be great no wars & no conflicts… a paradise… you shouldn’t belive in farytales.
gregor
There never been communists countries ever. If you talking about successful socialist countries I think Sweden is very succesiful.
Communism and socialism are one and the same, except communism is more extreme. There was no communism in Russia, there was a mix of socialism and communism, private property was still allowed, just not excess of it.
I thought all real estate property belonged to the Kremlin
Which period in particular are you referring to?
Premenstrual
And the top three winners for economic growth are!…. 1st place China, 2nd place Vietnam, and the runner up … Cuba! all Socialist too!
ps Socialism is a form of Communism
Never been any communistic states?
hmm
China, North Korea, Cuba, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Albania, Cambodia… the list goes on…
And don’t say that they weren’t really communist states because they were and still are in some cases. Communism stands for the dictatorship of the proletariat ie: NO DEMOCRACY.
Just because you deny they were communist doesn’t mean they weren’t, its like saying Germany under Hitler weren’t really nazi, there have never been a real nazi state.
I’d call that history revisionism.
Communism can’t be a democracy because it forces people to not own their own property, house etc. Everything must be controlled by a central bureau. And if you take away the economic classes (workers etc…) you only create a new kind of class system. Those who has the power to control the life of the citizens, factory workers etc. You can never get rid of class systems, there will always be some kind of classes in some shape or form.
gregor
“China, North Korea, Cuba, Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Albania, Cambodia”
Gregor, you are right, but you are also wrong. Have a look at the terminology of a “Communist State” to gain a better understanding..
yea maybe I meant Communist Country? I don’t understand your comment. English is not my first language you see
Or do you mean that they weren’t really politicaly communist?
Because that is what they were or are, countries controlled by communist dictatorship. As communism can only be implemented by dictatorship.
China to today probably has a “Capitalstic Dictatorship”.
GREGOR. I love your comment, 100% agree, clearly seen “American” has mental problems, like all anti-christian pro communists etc.
American has a point. Religion has taken more lives in this worlds history than anything I can think of. Look at the Jamestown massacre, look at the Palastinian/Israeli conflict. I personally think it is a demeaning and dangerous feature of humanity.
Yes maybe Amerikan has a point if you want to ban people’s own choices of how they want to live, what to belive in. I believe that people have the right to believe in anything they want.
As long as they don’t force their belief on anyone else.
What I hate is that people, usually on the socialist side, often point out how many people have been killed by nazis, religion etc. But can’t face the fact that people have been mass murdered in communist regimes. They hind behind the statement “They didn’t implement real communism” when infact they did. They got rid of people they didn’t like priests, lawyers, buissness owners, teachers, doctors the list goes on.
And that is the thing that unites these beliefs (Religions, Nazism, Communism). They are so extreme in their views that they easily make murderers out of people. Because if you know your right IF YOU have the answer to everything (“It’s the jews fault” “It’s capitalisms fault” “It’s the infedels faul”) then you must cleanse the world from what you believe is the fault for everything.
But I still believe that they have the right to say what they think is right or wrong in society.
Gregor thanks for explaining, most people dont recognize the difference between real christians and religion/religious people, they mix everything without knowing the fact they are on the opposite sides. When real christian pray for peace, religious will go and kill.
CHINA!
Urm China, successful and communist, national health service of the UK and similar services thought Europe eg France…Communism is utopia only it assumes the best in humanity and we would seem to not be there yet.
If I understand correctly, there was no Islamic Terrorism in the Soviet Union because of a ban on organized religion. Today Muslims are blowing themselves up in theaters, Metro Stations, and of course never forget Beslan…
Damn it- it has nothing in common with religion (as same as destroying WTC) Now we call terrorists people that during the 2WW were called “guerilla”. People are always fighting for money and power not for religion. Some times, as in parts of russia, they are fighting for independence and fact that those people are Muslim has nothing to do with the aim of the fight. They are somehow desperate and believe me those “attackers” has lost lots of midgets too but no one is talking about it. But true- Bieslan was a tragedy also due to Russia “special forces” and people in Bieslan know it.
Until recently, think 20th century and later, churches all around the world had more power and money than the governments, and oftern were the governments.
There is no Islamic terrorism. It is all a big misunderstanding because of western propaganda.
Besides, this nice big cathedral can easily be converted to the mosque, the same way we did the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople/Istanbul after the Christians there all converted to Islam.
The people of Moscow will someday do the same. Then I will put the big crescent on top of Kremlin, and invite my friends Chavez and Lukashenko for disco party inside Kremlin.
I think religions are utopia too… I don’t think the problem is in the religions it self but in the folowers… just like communism
Please provide evidence for the following comment:
“Look at US. If not for the backwards Bible thumpers we would be 100 years ahead of where we are now. Just look at the Koran thumpers, they are 500 years behind.”
Also I would like to know where we should be, you know without the influence of “Bible thumpers” and “Koran thumpers”.
I have heard that comment so many times and many similar comments from Atheists. Please do yourself a favor and support your claim.
Remember the Dark ages? Remember when the world was flat and if you said it was not you would be executed? Remember the Inquisition? All of these periods were times when there was little advancement in science for the good of mankind. Religion stifled it for the sake of power. It set humanity back a 1000 years.
Religion didn’t set humanity back 1000 years. That is yet another exaggeration. The Dark Ages and Inquisition were a product of the corrupt Catholic Church. The Catholic Church in no way resembles the the first Churches that are described in the New Testament. Corruption has produced immeasurable death so many times in history. Hitler, Lenin, Stalin for example. Flat Earth? All types of Men believed this. All types people believed the Earth was flat, round, cylindrical… But since you are such the expert, if you had lived BC or several hundred years AD you could have set these people straight.
Ok so we have one person saying we are 100 – 500 years behind where we should be, and another saying we are 1000 years behind where we should be. But no one can tell me where we should be. It seems to me that these are lame attempts to bash Religion.
Let me guess… you are not even 30 years old yet and only went to public schools? Only that can explain the ignorance of your comments. Those “backwards Bible thumpers” founded this country and set forth the greatest nation ever. The founding fathers left their home countries because the were not able to practice their religion freely.
“Communism is great, its a utopia, and ban of all organized religion is one of the better things communism brings.” Have you ever been to Russia and spoken to the families that were destroyed by communism? If you really believe communism is great, than you need to except what is yours is mine. Also, doctors are the equivalent of the garbage man.
Well I can’t speak directly for Amerikan but the “bible thumpers” he speaks, I believe, would be the christian-right the neocons are pandering to. There’s a difference in my eyes, as well as most sane people, between “bible thumpers” and intelligent religious people. Hell, look at the Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist loonies – you can’t tell me they’re on the same level as the American Founding Fathers.
What’s the problem with saying doctors and garbage men are “equivalent”? They both provide a worthwhile service. Doctors require years of schooling and apprenticeship before they can practice on their own. However most of them still never earn the type of income that someone like Tom Cruise, Britney Spears, or Tiger Woods does.
“Those “backwards Bible thumpers” founded this country and set forth the greatest nation ever. ” — I wouldn’t go as far as to compare the founding fathers to what people call ‘Bible Thumpers’. There’s a good reason the U.S. constitution contains these words, “…no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”
When attempting to hire some workers George Washington once wrote, “If they be good workmen, they may be from Asia, Africa, or Europe; they may be Mohammedans, Jews, or Christians of any sect, or they may be Atheists.” — George Washington
I’ve known many Christians that are not anywhere near as progressive as George Washinton.
“The founding fathers left their home countries because the were not able to practice their religion freely.” – That was actually the pilgrims. Of the 56 signatories of the Declaration of Independence, only 8 were not born in North America and most of them came as children. They wern’t fleeing persecution. Many of the founding fathers actually traveled Englend to recieve an education, both religious and otherwise.
I’m an athiest, but this was absolutely tragic.
Shame.
This story gets even more interesting. The church in question is the former cathedral of Christ the Savior.
The site was going to be a gigantic (and structurally impossible with 1930s technology) “Palace of the Soviets”.
They realized that they couldn’t build the thing, so the invomplete foundation was turned into “The largest outdoor swimming pool in the world!” Seriously.
After the fall of communism, the church we been rebuilt, to the original plans. According to my Russian professor, many of the dimensions had been surreptitiously noted down by one of the demolition engineers, who secretly loathed what he had been assigned to do, and thought that it might one day be rebuilt.
Turns out he was right.
…And it took a lot less time, what with the construction cranes and everything.
…by God you are right.
http://www.moscow-taxi.com/churches/cathedral-of-christ-savior.html
How about some pictures before it was blown up? It looks great.
<a href=”http://www.xxc.ru/foto/old/index.htm”Old photos
<a href=”http://www.xxc.ru/foto/outside/index.htm”Current exterior
<a href=”http://www.xxc.ru/english/index.htm”Official site (English version)
Woops, sorry, my bad
URLs are inside the quotes, just ignore those dumb hrefs.
You need pool to take bath!! You smell like old shoe!!!!
Jesus is Lord over Russia!
Jesus didn’t exist. Lenin did.
You doubting what he says, Thomas?
Come on . . . read it again, slowly. See the words “doubting” and “Thomas”?
Anyone? Anyone?
Does it count if I read it fast?
I knew you would “get it.”
Here is a picture of a quaint Orthodox church in Cheboksary
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3511576
Here is the photo of Trinity Cathedral in Far East Russia in Anadyr
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/2226195
Nice. Do you know what the exterior of the one in Anadyr is made of? I couldn’t tell from the photo if it was wood or dark-painted stucco, etc.
I think it is panamode… But I am not sure
There is a video of the cathedral being blown up. They couldn’t do it on the first attempt – first because nobody knew what they were doing and second because it was build some special way to last for centuries.
Thnx 4 sharing
The problem is not the political system or the philosophy behind it, but the people. People are competitive and petty by nature. They are driven by emotions, not reason.
Emotions should be balanced to secure a more or less harmonic result. Therefore democracy [meaning - people being represented by a number of political parties that give each of them them a voice] is probably the best system, because it balances itself more or less.
In Russia there is no democracy anymore and this is potentially bad, very bad, as history proved several times already. Putin is resembling Hitler in his MO. Read my comments in the ‘Pyramids’ subject if you are interested in my point of view regarding this.
got a link? i wouldn’t mind reading up some more
http://englishrussia.com/?p=1671#comments
scroll down, there are several comments by me.
What a waste, they didnt have to blow it up, just convert it to a communist office.
They did that in many places, didn’t they?
Maybe this one was the “ultimate symbol,” since it was in Moscow, and they could not resist showing the people that the power of the church was brought down along with the building that represented it.
That’s the mistake the communists and other militant atheists (not saying all atheists are militant–not at all) always make–they equate symbols with the power the symbol represents. Of course, you could argue that some religious people do the same . . . .
Remember when the Taliban blew up the giant Buddhas in Afghanistan? What a tragedy (and I’m not Buddhist, but I appreiate history and architecture, etc.) Not to mention all the potential revenue from pilgrams and tourists they blew away.
I agree
I am glad they didn’t destroy Sankt Basil. Why wasn’t it destroyed? Was there public pressure to preserve it?
Amen! And without Vaseline!!! {or a kiss first!}
That’s what Jesus said.
Communism is not dictatorship of the proletariat. SOCIALISM is dictatorship of the proletariat and is the stage before communism. So no, there has never been a successful communist country, thanks to revisionism.
Back to the topic, I would have preferred the Palace of Soviets, but the swimming pool was still an improvement.
Anyone see the HDNET world report about “nashi” aka putin’s youth? Any thoughts on this new movement?
The report made this seem like its a bad thing.. but its just young adults banding together to make the country stronger and supporting putin, which 80% of the country does. American presidents WISH they had support like this. It sounded more like the west is bitter because Russia is getting stronger and supporting its leaders even if they dont side with the west. They’re dumbfounded that poeple can be this patriotic, so they portray it as a Kremlin manipulation. They’re main point is kremlin friendly companies fund movements like this…. uh isnt that what america does better than anyone else. Where do these people think america gets all its election funds from? Political pParty friendly companies. Why didnt they ask where kasparov gets his funds from? Anyway… I just want to say … America, stop trying to discredit a growing Russia.
D, a bit off topic I know, but Is MaxD really your brother? It’s just that you both seem like the logical opposites of each other
Is there peace and harmony within your family? Or does the “no religion no politics law” has to be enforced?
Not by blood or marriage, but he seems like a smart guy, we could probably have a good conversation. I actually tend to agree with alot that he says.
Yes things are better than in 90s. Couldn’t get any worse, couldn’t they ? Russia is a fine place nowadays, provided you are healthy and wealthy. The average proletarian is starting to face the same problems as during 80s: no money to buy the offerings in the shops. Which are indeed full now.
This is just cospiracy theory. The west is the same way, but sneakier.
Time will tell. But then it’s too late. Follow common sense and logic, and there is only one outcome..
Nashi privately funded ? You mean you can just rent jet fighters if you throw in enough cash ? This info is all from Russian sources – do some research yourself. No-one is secretive about it…
No offense, but you also choose to see the pink picture instead of the grim shadow behind it. Just like Nashi.
And non-xenophobic ? Ever saw a Tadzik or, for that matter, any non-Slav in Nashi ?
I’m sure that the average Nashi member means well, but they are IMO just being mislead. It happened many times before in history. Again : us-against-them will cause trouble. It always does !
I’m not very religious, but how can you deny the existance of a higher power. Be it a man in a white beard sitting on a cloud, an elephant with 6 arms, and alien from another planet, or the combined spiritual energy of all life. No way, No how, does our whole life experience evaporate when we die. I was baptized russian orthodox, maybe two years ago, but my beliefs are more in line with hinduism and budhism as far as an after life goes.
It’s “sink or swim!” or “Every man for himself”
Not after Barack Hussein Obama becomes President of the United States.
Did you hear Oprah Winfrey’s moving speech about how the failure of all the little kids in school is the fault of an uncaring government, and how the foreclosure of homes because people don’t read, or believe, the interest rate before they sign their mortgate is the fault of . . . yes, the government, or that everything that is wrong in the lives of every American is the fault of a cold, uncaring government?!
This will change when O helps get O elected! We will sit together around a common fire in our village of a nation and beat our drums and sing songs of togetherness, and wait for our deliverance . . . from the government!
These post suck!
Y’know what would really be funny? if “Mahmoud Ahmadinejad” really WAS Mahmoud Ahmadinejad…>giggle<
Y’know what would be really funny? If the guy calling himself “Mahmoud Ahmadinejad” really WAS Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.. >giggle<
…you mean he isn’t?
I agree
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God… And the Word dwelt among us for a while…
John 8:58 (speaking to the religious Pharisees) Before Abraham was born, I AM!
That is some proof of his Deity…
…be nice.
hilarious
/rollseyes
Did you learn that from the same source from which you learned to spell?
Just like the evil communist chinese destroying tens of thousands of tibetan temples.
do not forget slavery, colonialism do the forget the black people suffering in USA the unemployed the homeless even today
numerous USA citizen do not have heath care.
thank you soviet people for your sacrifices to save us from colonial rule and the NAZIS occupation.
I will not subscribe to your paradise. I love these pics
After all the writing, shooting, politicking, strategizing, war and victory declaring and wringing of hands, the Afghanistan situation seems to come down to a matter of will. The Taliban have no shortage of will or of patience. The Afghan government and the Afghan people don’t seem to have much of either. We and our allies can prop them up for what? —another year or two until our will is exhausted. In short, if people have no civil will, those folks with un-civil will will win every time. Not a pretty picture for Afthanistan; not a pretty future for a country that ranks almost at the bottom of any civil vlaue chart that can be reasonably drawn.
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