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207 The Last One from Estonia

The Last One from Estonia

Posted on May 3, 2007 by


Though we already tired of this Estonian-Bronze things just another video submitted from that night. They even speak English in the end.

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207 Responses to “The Last One from Estonia”

  1. hmm says:

    Bad work from our police.
    A scum resisiting arrest should calm down after two or three punches.
    Let’s hope they’ll do better the next time!

    • Sarah Abramov says:

      REVIVAL NAZISM AND FASCISM IN ESTONIA – AND NO REACTION FROM THE WEST! JUST LIKE BEFORE WW2.

      Catholic Church supported Hitler. Western governments (some of them) supported Hitler.

      Now western governments support apartheid and pursuit by nationality.

      • Sarah Abramov says:

        Dear Estonians, my congratulations, you have shown your real face, you came on positions of Fascism and Nazism. You tell, that people are responsible for the crimes of people with their nationality.

        Fascists told the same. They were telling, that Jews are responsible for the crimes of people of Jewish nationality.

        Estonians, you have shown the world once again your fascistic views and your ugly Nazi face.

      • Sturmovik says:

        You are right that people should be treated as individuals and not punished for belonging to some group. This is key a principle of Jeffersonian Democracy.

  2. Boris Abramov says:

    Savages!!!

    Lets me guess, this isn’t police brutality. But the force that was used during the Kasparov rally which left people covered in Ketchup is.

    Let’s see if the “Good old objective” American press will pay any attention to this……I doubt it.

    • je says:

      oh, come on.
      that’s what you get for looting, vandalizing and resisting arest.

      • Boris Abramov says:

        I can just imagine all the racist and physical abuse he will get when the camera is out of the way.

        International Community – stop this abuse and tourture of ethnic minorities before they will resort to the technices used in Nazi Germany!!!

        Shame on you Human Rights organisations, hippocrates, for pursuing political goals rather than justice!!!

        Next time you hear anything about human rights abuses in Russia from the so called “Human Rights orgs”, jusk you yourself whether they are truly independent, and whether they do actually protect Human Rights, or just pursue western political goals.

        Don’t make the same mistake as we did during Soviet Union. Do not trust your government or the so called NGO’s – not all of then are as independant as they claim!!

        Don’t get brainwashed people. Just look a Texas1 – THE SAME COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

        • je says:

          calm down
          here’s an intresting atricle in moscow times about ‘hippocrates’

          http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2007/05/02/005.html

          Rhetoric Only Outdone by The Hypocrisy

          As indignation and anger among ethnic Russians in Estonia has peaked over the last couple weeks, Moscow’s rhetoric against Tallinn has been abhorrent. This was made clear Tuesday when a group of Russian lawmakers laid flowers at the foot of the Soviet monument that caused all the fuss.

          The memorial to slain World War II soldiers has been the scene of clashes between ethnic Russians and Estonians for years, especially on the Victory Day holiday on May 9, when Russia celebrates the defeat of Nazi Germany. From the moment Estonian officials announced a plan to move the monument out of central Tallinn, Russian media, particularly the three state-run national television channels, have referred almost exclusively in their news reports to the “dismantling” of the monument. As viewers turned on their televisions Tuesday to the sight of the lawmakers visiting the monument at its new location, in a Tallinn military cemetery, many must have understood that they had only been given half the truth. They had been told about the removal but not the relocation, it would seem, to stoke public indignation against Estonia’s “extreme nationalist” and “blasphemous” attitude. That indignation led to behavior that can only be described as “inhuman” — a favorite Kremlin word — by the Russians who participated in the Friday and Saturday riots that killed one man and injured dozens of others.

          Put plainly, Moscow’s conduct in the whole affair has been glaringly hypocritical. When the Kremlin or City Hall explains why opposition marches in Moscow have been banned, they usually cite concerns over unrest and disorder. When the Estonian government tries to avoid the unrest and disorder that usually spoils May 9, Russian officials describe this as “blasphemy.”

          At home, members of opposition groups who throw mayonnaise or pies at political figures are branded “extremist.” But in Tallinn, members of pro-Kremlin groups who take part in demonstrations where Molotov cocktails are hurled at police officers and shops are looted are being branded “patriotic.”

          Moscow is regularly accused of refusing to respect the independence of countries that were once under its control. In some cases these accusations, including from Estonia, come across as overblown and a bit paranoid.

          But if we apply Moscow’s own standards — and the idea of “sovereign democracy” so beloved by Kremlin political theorists — to the case of the monument in Tallinn, there is no excuse for the course Russia has taken. Surely the Estonians have the right to decide where to put a monument in their own capital.

          When anyone dares to question Russia’s official interpretation of past events, they are immediately accused of rewriting history. By playing fast and loose with the facts surrounding the recent clashes in Tallinn, Moscow is attempting to rewrite the present.

          if you care-
          http://www.hro.org/ngo/articles/2007/05/est.php
          http://www.hro.org/forum/showthread.php?p=87887#post8788 7

    • Pacific NW says:

      I just typed ‘estonia’ into google news and the only American press on the first page was from these 3 of 25 sources:

      “NATO Urges Russia to Stop Threats Against Estonia”: Voice of America

      “Sweden protests attack on ambassador’s vechicle in Russia (Extra)”: Monsters and Critics.com

      “Anti-Communism 101 from Tallinn, Estonia”: Dissident Voice, CA

      • Boris Abramov says:

        Thanks for proving my point to ignorant people :)

      • markus says:

        that’s so funny that all you Putin-jugends bash America, Europa and whole western culure all the time but in spite of that you still name yourself ‘Washington’ ‘ Michael’ etc in order that people would take you seriously. that’s just sad.

  3. illlich says:

    “they won’t kill him, don’t worry” (at least not while the camera is on.)

    if you are an ethnic Russian but grew up in Estonia, are you Russian or Estonian? In America, whether you have a Greek flag or Irish shamrock on your car, you are still an American.

    I am an ethnic Russian, but I have a high school friend who is an ethnic Estonian, and my college roommate was an ethnic Armenian, and the girl I took to the high school prom was an ethnic Ukrainian. . . of course over here we are all at least one generation removed from the old country, so the old hatreds are diluted.

  4. Boris Abramov says:

    A goog example of how Estonian Nazi propaganda has affected perseptions of ordinary Estonian people…

    Sad really.

    Hope you see my point illlich.

  5. marvin says:

    :) Come and pee on me should you dare, my amiable chap – let’s have a contest. I’m 6 foot 9, and weigh more than 25 stone. I suspect that I’ve got a slightly bigger bladder and willy sos that in the end you’ll be the soaked one. :)

  6. marvin says:

    sos= so

  7. ReplyFromRussia says:

    Can you translate this video? I can.

    “Don’t beat me! I do nothing! I touch nobody! I came out from cafe!”

    This is not Russia, this is Estonia(or [b]SS[/b]tonia). This is a part of EU.

    • hck says:

      it doesn’t make sense to run away from police if you just “came from the cafe” (the translation is valid enough)

      if you didn’t do anything, why would you run away?

  8. Boris Abramov says:

    Do not get down to their level!!

  9. adios says:

    апять срачъ?

  10. marvin says:

    DEAR FRIENDS!
    I have a proposition to all of you, espacially the Estonians on this forum – what do you think if we invited our friends and debate buddies :) over to Estonia when this riot is over – perhaps next year – to show them that Estonia is not a Nazi country and by developing personal relationships help to make them understand our point of view as well as trying to understan theirs? Reach a freindly hand since our governments are not foing anything of the sort? Comments and thought are most welcome …

    • marvin says:

      Especially since writing is so time-consuming and futile an enterprise. Not to mention the typos which are really an annoyance ….

    • je says:

      it’s a trap! :D

    • hck says:

      dude. they won’t believe anyway.

      oddly enough, whenever there is a russian forum, the majority always seems to approve anything putin says, also very protective of ussr heritage, agressive towards other states (unless it’s cuba, north korea or iraq… they’re too wimpy to pick on china), *especially* the biggest enemy – usa, oops baltic states, also, to some extent, uk as the harbor for national traitors and terrorists such as berezovsky, zakayev, … well you name it. they’re the ones always to dance joyfully when some “enemy” such as yeltsin or politkovskaya or litvinenko dies, the joy is even greater when they die a violent death. i wonder, who’s next, ganopolski or kovalyev?

      they’re always the ones justifying uncle joe stalin, claiming that he killed ONLY half a million (or 800000, or less) people and that ussr was a paradise.

      so there is always some “housewife from prosperous siberia” (as seen on at least tens of forums), “student in uk”, etc etc, typical characters.

      my advice is don’t take them too seriously :)

      • Boris Abramov says:

        Why are Estonians so full of hate??

        I personally love Yeltsin. He was a great man, he, together with Gorby gave us freedom and democracy. If russians hate anyone, its people who used and manipulated Yeltsin, – Such as: Berezovsky and Gusinsky!!!

        As for Stalin – he is a brutal despot who killed much more russians and jews than he killed all the people in baltic states put together!!

        You are telling Horrible and Hateful lies again!!
        When did russians ever defend Stalin???

        You are a trully EVIL PERSON!!!

        • hck says:

          your acting is yet to improve, my russian friend.

          *EVIL laughter*

          • Boris Abramov says:

            I can see your intelect doesn’t stretch far enough to post an informative reply. Or maybe you just have nothing to say.

            Ether way, if you have nothing even slightly grown up to say – don’t bother!

        • hck says:

          wait wait wait, but which one is putin then, the brainwashed simplton or the brainwasher himself? :)

          • Boris Abramov says:

            I personally dislike him, he has this unpleasant KGB look about him!! But the fact is, he is the best president russian has ever had. I also, do not think he is clever enough to brainwash 71% who voted for him. Every one knows the most effective propaganda is western one. Why, – because they can sell you anything, marketing is what US and Europe do best.

            People like him, not because they have been brainwashed through some state controlled channels, but because he has greatlly raised russian standart of life and produced efficient and safe business environment.

            Why are foreign investments increasing every day?
            Surely all the negative information about russia would have discouraged investors.

            I will tell you why; – because investors are generally smart people, and know full well that this negaive image that russia is constantly portrayed as, is purley politically motivated..

            As I said before; “any loss of freedom, whould be outweighed by financial benefits. Be smart people!”

            • hck says:

              goddamnit, it must be 5AM in moscow, 4AM here, I need to get up at 8AM to start plotting a new conspiracy against Russia. Also after lunch I need to discriminate the Russian minority for atleast 1 hour and 30 minutes. Then 41 minutes praying at Hitler. do you guys ever sleep?
              let’s continue this tomorrow
              but congratulations on the post which makes the most sense so far :)

              • Boris Abramov says:

                Good night, have nice dreams :)

              • Texas1 says:

                Good nite hck.

              • talking beaver says:

                +5

                You know, Boris Abramov keeps telling everyone that he has known me under the name of “hck”.

                I was puzzled until I read this thread.

                ROFL!

                Good one, man!

                It is nice to see that there still are some reasonable people left!

                After communicating with Boris Abramov one starts to think that this world has gone completely crazy.

                They say that “madness is contagious”. Possibly it would be wiser to desist from visiting this site altogether.

                Good luck!

        • Texas1 says:

          I agree with you completely. The Russians that come to the US do not want to return. Even the wealthy Russians don’t want to go back. In addition, they are pretty mellow people that are pretty easy to get along with. However, the Russians that aren’t wealthy are a lot more questionable. If they came here because they have a corporate job then they are pretty cool people. However, if they didn’t come here because of work relocation or have lots of money and are going to college then typically they are up to no good. You should not trust them but that is usually obvious.

    • Texas1 says:

      Heck ya! That would be cool!! Boris won’t be able to make it though because his tricycle has a flat tire.

  11. Noggin says:

    look at how low russia has gone down
    getting beet up by little estonia

    haa

    • Boris Abramov says:

      Hope western people can see from this comment who are the real victims in this ordeal..

      Not Big Bad Russia, but poor russian minorities who are being treated this way everyday!

      • Noggin says:

        it looks like how American southerners treated black people in the 50’s. How the Estonian treat Russians,like black people

        • Pacific NW says:

          It also looks very much like the WTO riots in Seattle, 1999 and Los Angeles, two days ago.

          • hck says:

            did they also just come from the cafe on a fast pace? :)

            • hck says:

              The cops were just standing there and blocking the way to the monument.

              Then people called the cops various names for several hours, after which a guy from the crowd threw a massive rock at cops, hitting one female cop into head. Then the hell broke loose. I’m with the police this time, they were just doing their job. If you can’t protest peacefully – don’t.

              Because this video doesn’t show what led to such arrest of this “cafe-lover”, and Russian media has openly been seeking for videos, where police violence is shown (note that it’s not truth they’re after, but police violence!), I highly doubt things were like our dear “freedom fighters” tend to describe.

        • HarryBalls says:

          That’s good news. I always thought we were justified too.

      • je says:

        big bad estonia vs. little innocent russia. so sad.

        ‘but poor russian minorities who are being treated this way everyday!’

        where do you get that? any sources?

        • Boris Abramov says:

          Everyone who wants to know, will know exactlly how minorities are treated in Estonia.

          Some good information on this site:

          http://www.developmentandtransition.net/index.cfm?module=ActiveWeb&page=WebPage&DocumentID=586

          • hck says:

            yeah, go ahead, ask azeirbadjan or jewish community in estonia about how they’re treated :) or finnish, or swedish, or georgian, or ukrainian, most of them have made official statements as well. hell. only poor russians are getting a beating, for some reason, boo hoo. maybe because nazi estonians arrest cafe loving people when they run away from cops.

            • Boris Abramov says:

              You are an evil Nazi. Im sure, in fact I know, – not all Estonians are like you. But you sure do demonstrate what can happen to the majority of Estonians isf your government carries on brainwashing people with Nazi propoganda!!

              I shall pray for you!!

              • hck says:

                LOL

                you’re getting better, I almost see your “sincere concern” :D

                man, this site is fun, you can see all the variety of clowns

                • tn says:

                  it seems that this forum here is getting more and more unargumented and unpolite. I think it’s not worth to spend so much of my time here as I have done in the last days, but there are still some things I would like to point out.

                  First, people who blame Estonia in Nazism or Fascism: please define it. What do these words mean to you? I live here and I have seen no fascists in the government. Honestly. Please give me some arguments WHY do you call our country like that? Where have you taken it from? It’s a complete mystery for me!

                  I think that it’s just a random negative word that the Russian press has connected to Estonia and some of you have started to believe that connection – every time you hear the name Estonia, the word “fascism” comes to your mind and in some time you start to believe it’s true. Please correct me if I am wrong.

                  Secondly, it seems that only half of the truth is given to you. There has been a plan to relocate the monument for a long time already. Relocation means it will be taken down and then put up in some other place. As far as I know, you have heard only of taking it down, so you criticize us for destroying the monument that is actually in the cemetary where it belongs.

                  The other thing that shows you’ve got only half of the truth – as far as I know, the Russian media mostly shows pictures of policemen arresting people. Yes, I agree that in the situation of crisis it may sometimes look like in this video. Anyway, people were NOT arrested for running out from the cafe or being Russian. People were arrested for crimes. Do you know that your “peaceful protesters” broke windows of shops? They robbed Armani and Hugo Boss suits, they broke in into alcohol shops and stole everything they found from there, they burned down kiosks in the streets, they attacked buses, schools and dwelling houses. I am not “brainwashed” or something, I saw these broken windows. The centre of Tallinn is still full of cafes, bars, book shops, art galleries etc. that have some wooden plates instead of windows. By the way, an employee of the Latvian embassy was injured by a stone that was thrown in from the window.

                  one more interesting fact – in other parts of Tallinn there was much less crime that night. It shows that people who usually commit crimes elsewhere just got together in one place.

                  SO, I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS TO MY OPPONENTS:

                  1) Why do you call Estonia a Fascist country? Have you ever seen any proves or you’ve just heard these words together too much?

                  2) When people attack bookshops, kiosks, schools, buses, when they rob alcohol and expensive clothes, can you call them peaceful protesters? What should the police do with them in your opinion? How were these robbers protecting the monument?

                  • strannik says:

                    1) I don’t think that Estonia is a fascist country. But what about those 300 thousands russians (a quarter of your population) that haven’t got the right to vote and other civil rights?
                    It’s not the fascism yet but already a good way to it.

                    2) Of course any disorder must be stopped by police. That night the peaceful protesters near the monument have been replaced with drunk people. And police HAD TO STOP the meeting at THAT TIME. But it seems that somebody told: “Wait till they get drunk even more strongly, let them commit crimes!”
                    I think that it was a provocation.

                    • je says:

                      1) that’s no true. in estonia live 300 thousand people, that you would consider as russian, but over a half them has a citizenship and will be treated as any other citizen.
                      so non citizens, but they can’t just vote.

                      and for non-citizen:
                      General right to vote: All residents at least 18 years old on election day, regardless of citizenship, who permanently reside in the corresponding rural municipality or city (and have a permanent residence permit). Non-citizens must have been legally residing in the corresponding rural municipality or city for at least the last five years by election day.

                      and to get citizenship.
                      http://www.mig.ee/eng/citizenship/citizenship/
                      like in any other country.

                      2)blah

                    • strannik says:

                      I’ve read the document. Seems, that it’s not very hard to get citizenship. But what is in reality? Why others 150 000 haven’t got it yet? (It will be interesting to get the opinion of russian speaking people).

                      And what does it mean: “be loyal to the Estonian state”? Have those who had taken part in meeting for protection of that monument lost the hope to become citizens?

                    • hck says:

                      of those 350.000 russian-speaking people in estonia, about 100.000 are citizens of russian federation, and a bit less than 100.000 are those without citizenship (but they have EU residents’ rights), the rest have estonian citizenship.

                    • talking beaver says:

                      “Why others 150 000 haven’t got it yet?”

                      In case of Latvia (which I guess is more or less the same) the answer, basically, is – because they do not want to.

                      – They do not want to learn the language (which they would be supposed to know already anyway, but don’t)

                      – They look down at the country they live in, many consider it (the country) to be “mistake”, “temporary”. In short – they are Soviet/Russian imperial type nationalists considering Baltic countries a break-away provinces to be taken back by Russia some time soon.

                      – Many if not most praise (in explicit or implied way) Soviet “liberation” and act of annexing by USSR. (Sometimes you can see car number plates with CCCP+Soviet flag and hummer and a sickle).

                      – Russian youth used to avoid getting citizenship for not needing to undergo military service. (Now when conscripting is canceled, this reason is gone.)

                      – Practical implications of not being citizen are very minor, so many just do not want to do anything about it, as it is simpler and easier this way.

                      etc.

                      It is all about attitude. There is NO other reason.

                      (!!!)

      • Texas1 says:

        If they are looting then they need to be thumped over the head with a police stick.

        • Boris Abramov says:

          YES, Texan efficacy!!! Why don’t you just shoot them on sight?

          LOL, and you wonder why people consder Texans to be uncivilised hicks…

      • FireFox says:

        dude are you serious? I know plenty of russians in eesti who have learned the language and integrated well. Good jobs, and well respected. The only minorities are those who isolate themselves by having nothing to do with estonian way of life or language or culture… If you want to get ahead in life you need to make the effort. agree?

  12. Aleksandr NVK says:

    What matters to now is it is over. Estonia was made to put the bronze soldier back on display- so is not in same place but the fascists have not destroyed it for now anyway. Back in Moscow the ambassador of the fascist state of Estonia has left- Nashi certained this and released this statement-

    МЫ ПОБЕДИЛИ!
    Посол фашистского государства Марина Кальюранд из двух предлагаемых НАШИМИ вариантов: извиниться или покинуть территорию страны, выбрала второй. В данный момент она ждет вылета самолета в Стокгольм в зале для официальных персон и делегаций в «Шереметьево-2». Она официально заявила о том, что улетает в отпуск.

    So things should become more calmed now and especially once after all prisoners are released- unless Estonia has other provokations in mind but this still remains to be seen.

    • marvin says:

      Was made? That was the initial plan :) Read the papers, it’s been talked about for about a year.

        • glayheppela says:

          Maybe because they didn`t destroy the statue, you can visit it already.
          Russian media said we cut the statue in 3 cause it`s impossible to transport a thing that big, lol. I mean, atleast try to make your propaganda believable.

          Damn, I wouldn`t be suprised if tomorrow Russian papers will say something along the lines of “Estonian goverment`s plot to kill Putin has been revealed; 2 tons of TNT was found in the president`s car”

          Lol

          • hck says:

            no, there has been a plot to kill putin using swastika-shaped bronze shurikens and blonde female ninja snipers.

            many russian papers wrote in 2000 or 2001 that a batallion of female snipers from baltic states was fighting russians in chechnya :D

            i suggest using expression “being in a cafe” as a synonym to “running away from cops”. OPT newsflash: many protesters were in a cafe, but were eventually arrested.

      • Aleksandr NVK says:

        No- the initial plan was to dismantle. It was later they had made comments to allude it may be relocated but somewhere in months down the line- if I remember was sometime in summer. It was obvious they had no intentions. Due to pressures they rushed to quickly display it unharmed in new location to release tensions and they admitted to this in several medias- so this can not be denied.

        • je says:

          -
          “I have difficulty imagining anything more insulting to those who fought in World War II than having pictures of drunken shoplifters shown in their memory all over the world,” Ansip said in his first major statement since the riots.

          He also apologised for moving the Bronze Soldier monument earlier than planned.

          “In order not to give the vandals the excuse or possibility to link their activities with the memory of the fallen, we removed the statue” in the early hours of Friday, Ansip said, adding that he was “sorry that we had to do this earlier than planned, but the plunderers did not leave us with any other choice.”

          but prehaps the statue should be destroyed, like in himki?
          then it would be ‘true russian way’ and not fascistic? or what?

          • Sarah Abramov says:

            Monument in Himki is not destroyed, it is moved to another place, cos’ the place where it stands will be new road.

            • hck says:

              yeah, and allegedly the veterans themselves begged the city council on their knees to move that monument, too…

              http://www.ng.ru/events/2007-04-20/8_himki.html

              «Гробы с моими коллегами лежали прямо под канализацией. Их из-под труб вытаскивали. Здесь еще и проститутки собираются. Утром идешь – на памятнике презервативы висят! Это кощунство!» – продолжает с горячностью бывший летчик Куршев.

              LOL

  13. russkiebomb says:

    Yeah that is apartheid and discrimination. My western friends, is in European standard of dealing things? If yes, than our OMON has to learn much from you.

  14. Agnes says:

    Haha!

    The fascist russian master race on its knees and begging! All the while dear old mother russia can only whine to the UN! Hilarious!

    I bet all the victims of the NKVD and KGB begged just like that! Only… they probably didn’t survive the encounter.

    Heil Putin!

    • Agnes says:

      So clever of you, sister. I bow before your obvious intellectual superiority ;)

      Oh, don’t let the FSB know. They don’t like the intelligentsia ;)

  15. jozhix says:

    Good work Estonia! I just hope you will deport all aliens that participated in riots back to Russia, where they belong. Interesting, that meanwhile in Russia WW2 memorials are wiped out, but who cares, right? Where are NASHISTI when country needs them? :D

    • Boris Abramov says:

      Thanks for proving my case man.

      With such nationalists statements and call for Russian nazis to help you, I think it would be hard to deny that Estonia is full of people (Nazis) like you!!

      I rest my case!!

    • strannik says:

      You want to deport 300 thousands people to Russia?

      Seems, that time to replace picture of Ansip on the desktop of your PC with picture of Stalin had come. He is the best expert on deportation.

  16. marvin says:

    I am truly sad. There is no end to this argument. No-one even wants to understand. I quit.

    • Boris Abramov says:

      I agree, I give up aswell!! Wouldn’t is be good if we all russians, latvians, estonians, jews, muslims – just loved one-another and had free unprotected sex everyday?

      Ahh…That day may never come :(

      But you can still have sex with me :)

      Do you mind Sarah?? If he is Marvin OK with that, you can join join as well..

  17. marvin says:

    Whoever you are, you are NOT Abramov. Disgusting …

  18. Some info says:

    Estonia Freedom Fighters

    In 1941 the Eesti Omakaitse (Estonian Self-Defence) killed thousands of Jews and communists. In Tartu the Eesti Omakaitse shot about 9.000 Soviet POWs.([1], [2])

    The all-volunteer Estnische SS-Legion was created in 1942. The unit, ultimately called 20th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Estonian), finished its way in May 1945 in Czechoslovakia. The division’s soldiers carried stripes with the Estonian national colors and images of three lions[1].

    Estonian auxiliary police participated in the extermination of the Jews in Estonia and Pskov region of Russia and provided guards for concentration camps for Jews and Soviet POWs (Jägala, Vaivara, Klooga, Lagedi), in all of which prisoners were killed. The 36th Estonian Police Battalion took part in mass shooting of Jews in a Byelorussian town of Novogrudki on 7 August, 1942. The 37th, 38th, 40th, 286th, 288th Estonian battalions operated against the partisans in the Pskov, Luga, Gdov regions of Russia and Belarus. The 658th battalion participated in punitive operations against civilians near the town of Kingisepp and the village of Kerstovo (the Leningrad region) and burnt down the villages Babino, Habalovo, Cigirinka, etc.

    • hck says:

      yeah and our presidents have several times acknowledged, apologized and ashamed of those actions, so it’s not really a secret over here

      so when is putin going to apologize or at least admit the mass rapes and butchering of civilians of koeningsberg and berlin, polish officers at khatyn, deportations, holodomor, afghanistan, vietnam, chechnya, …, …, …?

      • hck says:

        that’s probably the weirdest logic I’ve seen ever, and I thought I knew most pearls from mr “Kosher” Abramov here

      • Washington says:

        As far as I am concerned, Nazi countries should never be allowed in NATO. If there is ever a war between Russia and Estonia, I hope US and NATO will have more sense then get involved.

    • Boris Abramov says:

      Monstrous!! How much hate do these Estonian Nazis have?

      What’s even more monstrous, is that Estonia still hasn’t apologised for these monstrosities. No onlly that, but some Estonians still practice this terrible “State Supported” ideology!!

      Good night, hope you have nightmares about the Jewish children that were burned alive by your great suffering nation!!!

  19. Washington says:

    Terrible! Why do they get away with things like that?

    And why can’t Russians leave Latvia, for Russia?

  20. Some more info says:

    When Nazi liberated Estonia (created Nazi province Ostland)from Soviets they find the way on how to keep locals busy. Some accepted.

    The Nazi regime also established 22 concentration and labor camps in Estonia for foreign Jews, the largest, Vaivara, had 20,000 Jewish prisoners pass through its gates, and several thousand foreign Jews were killed at the Kalevi-Liiva camp

    Vaivara was the largest of the 22 concentration and labour camps established in Estonia by the Nazi regime during World War II. It had 20,000 Jewish prisoners pass through its gates.

    It was apparently established in 1943 as a camp for Soviet prisoners of war. From August 1943 until February 1944 it was the main branch of 20 forced labor camps located throughout Estonia

    Klooga was a Nazi labor subcamp of the Vaivara concentration camp complex established in September 1943, during World War II, in German-occupied Estonia near the northern Estonian village of the same name. The Vaivara camp complex was commanded by German officers (Hans Aumeier, Otto Brennais, and Franz von Bodman) and consisted of some 20 field camps, some of which existed only for short periods.

    Klooga held up to 3,000 male and female prisoners at any given time during its operation; the overwhelming majority were Jews who were forcibly relocated in August and September 1943 from the ghettos of Kovno and Vilna in Lithuania and Salaspils in Latvia; smaller numbers were from Estonia, Russia and Romania. Small numbers of political prisoners, criminals, homosexuals, and Soviet POWs (about 100) were also imprisoned in the camp

    German SS units and members of the 287th Estonian Police battalion served as guards.

    When the Soviet army began its advance through Nazi-occupied Estonia in July and August 1944, the SS started to evacuate the camp. Many prisoners were sent west by sea to the Stutthof concentration camp near Danzig and to Freiburg in Germany. During the period of September 19-23, 1944, guards surrounded the camp and began systematically slaughtering the remaining prisoners in a nearby forest. Approximately 2,000 were shot, then their bodies were stacked onto wooden pyres and burned. On September 28, 1944, when Soviet troops reached the Klooga camp, Only 85 of the 2,400 prisoners remaining post-evacuation had managed to survive by hiding inside the camp or escaping into the surrounding forests. The liberation forces found numerous pyres of stacked corpses left unburned by the camp’s guards when they fled.

    • Helen says:

      Hi! Tormoz!You are funny

    • marvin says:

      I DID NOT WRITE THIS. Simply compare my previous posts and you’ll see for yourself.

      See, there is no use in trying to develop any sort of serious discussion here – imposters simply try to use the names of others and disseminate hatered.

      This was my last comment on this forum; so whatever will have been written under the name of marvin henceforth, shall not have been written by me. I bid you all a farewell.

  21. Woroao says:

    Police brutality (at least during riots) isn’t really a political issue. It isn’t limited to Estonia, or Russia for that matter. It happens in England, Germany, Denmark, USA, Finland, Sweden… anywhere really.

    The fact of the matter is that police and security work attracts personalities of a certain type (even though they try to screen out the violent types at police schools), and at chaotic events, like riots, these types of disturbed personalities are free to act out their violent nature and the work-place solidarity keeps the more sensible officers from reporting them.

    I’ve known people from the “security industry” (guards, etc.) personally, and there certainly are many people in that line of work who are ABSOLUTELY in the wrong profession. One example of what is really bubbling under the surface of security professions are the “professional tips” that are passed along workers. An example would be that security guards often advise each other to repeatedly and loudly yell “CALM DOWN!” when restraining a person – not to actually calm down the person, but so that if questioned in court, people around the scene will remember the guard telling the restrained individual to calm down, which immediately implies that the person was fighting back, and that in turn would justify whatever otherwise excessive violence the guard would have used.

    What I’d like to see governments do, is eliminate the anonymity of riot police – at least put the badge number on their uniforms. This would help keep the actions of the police at a sensible level, when everyone knows that they might be recognised if/when they “use excessive force”.

  22. Nikolay says:

    People! I understood!
    It could be the beginning of WW3, remember my words!!!
    Russia will react on this, and then Europe will react on Russia’s reaction and so on….

  23. numb says:

    In my opinion, estonian police could’ve handled the situation much better. And the relocation of the statue should have been done at some other time, if at all.

    But I have noticed that many russian websites and even officials use the word nazism to describe various things, such as this estonian event. The fact that the statue was just relocated into a military cemetery, isn’t nazistic in my opinion.

    As I have understood, many people in Russia have started to use the word nazi to describe something generally unwanted, like estonians.

    If thinking from the estonian point of view, both the russian and nazi invasion can be seen as bad. Hence, the soviet memorial doesn’t just represent victory over nazis, but also victory over estonians.

  24. FireFox says:

    There was nothing excessive about that take down… 3 or 4 hits. No kicking. No stamping. No head or upper body hits… This was not a peaceful demonstration like the Kasparov rally in Moscow. That guy came out of the front window of a shop and ran. Get it in perspective people. If your a shop robbing criminal you can expect to be be subdued like this. Good work Police.

  25. kocmoc says:

    Here’s another side of the coin for you guys;

  26. kocmoc says:

    Works like a charm, I see.

    Here’s the URL.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M66lVYptczg

  27. kocmoc says:

    Oh damn, this thing doesn’t seem to work so good :)

  28. Spetsnaz says:

    I hope Estonia will be nuked some day.

    Naah.. I think a new invasion is a good choice. :)

  29. Anna says:

    I hope that people in Russia will see the real face of “western democracy” and this will make Russia rise up again. We believed too long in something which does not exist.

  30. hck says:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=u1mcL4bG9sk

    now that’s some peaceful protesting

    • ffs says:

      guess that russian media intrepeted this something like this-
      ‘those peaceful russian just wanted to return those goods to the stores that evil police threw at them, but those fascists close their stores so early, that the only way in was through the window :D

  31. Poser says:

    I congratulate the entire world with the advent of of new Fascist sovereign state!

  32. raunito says:

    Englishrussia editors, please put this picture also on your site:

    http://drive-alienn.livejournal.com/100287.html

  33. asdf says:

    I really don’t believe what my eyes are seeing right now:

    http://www.postimees.ee/040507/esileht/valisuudised/258754.php

    Russia’s parliament just voted for a red flag with hammer and sickle to become an official “Flag of Victory”. I just can’t believe it. Couple of years ago Russia started to use Soviet Union’s anthem as Russia’s official anthem. Now they put Soviet Union’s official flag back into action. Not yet as an official flag of Russia, but it’s not far from there.

    Oh, come on. I really-really can’t understand what good all those Russians are seeing back from Soviet times so that they want it back. Back at Soviet times everybody knew how much back in innovation and life-standards all this Soviet life was, tens of years compared to life in other European countries or US. We watched Western TV-shows with anger as they had much-much-much better life there.

    And now, instead of taking right steps to makes Russia a rich and powerful free democratical country with healthy economy and free press they have done all the things vice versa. Russia has killed free press already and there are only two kinds of rich people – Kremlin guys or oligarchs – everybody else is really poor.

    The only good thing in Soviet Time for Russians was that Russians were the Best and Chosen Nation among other hundreds of nations of Soviet Union who had to bow in front of them. I know it, I have lived in Soviet Union as non-Russian. Nowadays Russians are not Best nor Chosen for Estonians anymore and Russians don’t want to accept it. In Estonia they have to understand it, there is no other possibility. They have to admit that they are equal to Estonians and they must honour Estonian laws if they want to live there. Still some of them don’t want to understand it.

    Estonia has wanted to be a European country with all the people living together with a view into future and better life. You can’t live with just watching at statues and speaking about actions that have been happened in the past and done by other persons, not you. Country won’t get better by just screaming on others. You have to let the past go and take care of YOUR own future BY YOURSELF.

    Germany has understood it and look at them: Soviet Union won the war, Germany lost it miserably and became know as the Most Evil Country In The World. But at this point here and now Germany is one of most powerful countries in a whole Europe and in EU. Both economically and politically. How is it so that most hated country is back in happiness and a winner is..well, nowhere, only screaming at others and talking things that have happened in the past.

    Russia, look at yourself, please.

  34. tn says:

    I repeat a comment of mine that I accidentally posted somewhere in the middle of this topic (sorry!), I think nobody finds it from there. So:

    it seems that this forum here is getting more and more unargumented and unpolite. I think it’s not worth to spend so much of my time here as I have done in the last days, but there are still some things I would like to point out.

    First, people who blame Estonia in Nazism or Fascism: please define it. What do these words mean to you? I live here and I have seen no fascists in the government. Honestly. Please give me some arguments WHY do you call our country like that? Where have you taken it from? It’s a complete mystery for me!

    I think that it’s just a random negative word that the Russian press has connected to Estonia and some of you have started to believe that connection – every time you hear the name Estonia, the word “fascism” comes to your mind and in some time you start to believe it’s true. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Secondly, it seems that only half of the truth is given to you. There has been a plan to relocate the monument for a long time already. Relocation means it will be taken down and then put up in some other place. As far as I know, you have heard only of taking it down, so you criticize us for destroying the monument that is actually in the cemetary where it belongs.

    The other thing that shows you’ve got only half of the truth – as far as I know, the Russian media mostly shows pictures of policemen arresting people. Yes, I agree that in the situation of crisis it may sometimes look like in this video. Anyway, people were NOT arrested for running out from the cafe or being Russian. People were arrested for crimes. Do you know that your “peaceful protesters” broke windows of shops? They robbed Armani and Hugo Boss suits, they broke in into alcohol shops and stole everything they found from there, they burned down kiosks in the streets, they attacked buses, schools and dwelling houses. I am not “brainwashed” or something, I saw these broken windows. The centre of Tallinn is still full of cafes, bars, book shops, art galleries etc. that have some wooden plates instead of windows. By the way, an employee of the Latvian embassy was injured by a stone that was thrown in from the window.

    one more interesting fact – in other parts of Tallinn there was much less crime that night. It shows that people who usually commit crimes elsewhere just got together in one place.

    SO, I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS TO MY OPPONENTS:

    1) Why do you call Estonia a Fascist country? Have you ever seen any proves or you’ve just heard these words together too much?

    2) When people attack bookshops, kiosks, schools, buses, when they rob alcohol and expensive clothes, can you call them peaceful protesters? What should the police do with them in your opinion? How were these robbers protecting the monument?

  35. patriot.ru says:

    You`re all will be punished, disgusting fascists!
    Don`t need to believe me. Just wait.
    Wait for retaliation. Every second, every day!
    We`ll broke your backbone, like our dads and grandads did.
    Wait for it!

    Russians against fascism!

  36. yana says:

    How wise! Exellent, yes, exellent, really exellent for”down”
    The nurse helped you?

  37. Boris Abramov says:

    WTF? You must be form Texas..

  38. Pacific NW says:

    I’m going to copy this text and make flyers, and distibute them throughout my neighborhood.

  39. daniel says:

    How would YOU react if somebody invaded your country and remained there causing only misery to your nation, and then some punkass would riot defending the rights of your former oppressors? My thoughts are he got away with next to nothing compared to the atrocities the russians did to the estonian people.

    • Boris Abramov says:

      Ok, so because soviet government repressed you, you are now repressing ethnic russians who also suffered under soviet regime…..Hmmmm interesting logic, a bit nazistic, but still interesting.

      Is this the logic they tought you in school?

      My God, can anyone honestlly say that this guy is not a Nazi? Please provide me wrong :)

      • eestlane says:

        Duh… I’ll quote myself

        “The only kind of people who Estonia doesn’t need are the ones who come here, refuse to adopt the culture (just enough to integrate) and refuse to learn the language, THEREFORE, when they refuse to learn the language, they don’t get a job. Which is logical, because we have only one national language and that is estonian, NOT russian. And they don’t get citizenship” and therefore they can’t vote.

        You call them not being able to vote “repressing”? WTF why should they be able to vote when they aren’t worthy citizens?

  40. See the truth says:

    A letter from mother of the “enemy of nation”

    My son Mark Siryk has been arrested. The day whaen it happened he was walking to school,
    he was detained, handcuffed and driwen away. He was not on the square when there were disturbances.
    He is just a boy that didn’t want the Bronze Soldier to be taken away. He did not summon anybody
    to violence and massacres, he believed in justice, believed in EU and democratical Estonia.

    In one day they made him almost the enemy of nation. They made a search in our house, confiscated all the
    notebooks, computer, bank cards without explaining the reason. First they told me that he was detained
    for 48 hours, but later they let know that the arrest will last half of year.

    All this in the year when Mark finishes the school! Why? No one can explain why is the arrest,
    handcuffs and half of year in prison. These arrangement could be applicable to a very dangerous crimer,
    but not to a boy who wanted to organize picket at the monument.

    I don’t know what can be done with him there by the people who had a lump in childrens’ throat at
    daylight, beaten people that were down or sitting with batons and feet. I believe that in the conditions
    of the prison it is possible to beat out any statements and find an evidence of Moscow’s hands or anything else.

    What will my son be thinking about Estonia? And what will think tens, hundreds of boys and girls in this
    country, that were grabbed at day, pulled out from the crowd and whose faces were pressed to tha asfalt by feet?

    And what I, the mother of the boy, will think? But unlike with him, I understand very good that someone needs
    a sensation about an unveil of a conspiracy, in order to find an excuse of what had happened on the streets of
    Tallinn. And now it is very convenient for them to lay the blame on children.

    My son is in the disaster, we were placed on the edge of a material catastrophe. We will have judgements and
    advocates ahead. Mark must be free again. And I hope that honest-minded people will help and support us because
    we are not able to survive this nightmare alone.

    Our e-mail is sosmarkfree@gmail.com; tel +372 564 77727 .

    Irina Siryk

  41. eestlane says:

    Mark Siryk was a naši comissar in Estonia. the KAPO (defence police) has evidence. go and ask, if you don’t believe our objective media.

  42. dsc security says:

    dsc security…

    Great post!…

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